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RodRussell
6th May 2013, 04:27 AM
Owners of dead Labrador retriever sue New York veterinarian for prescribing Rimadyl. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/vet_rx_killed_our_dog_suit_Novv3EcGtuFhls400nuCvN

Lukesmom
6th May 2013, 04:58 PM
This article barely gives any details. And Rimadyl apparently does have a warning label, according to this article in USA Today.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2005-04-11-dog-pain-usat_x.htm

pippa
6th May 2013, 10:34 PM
Rod, as I've pointed out on the other site you posted on it's only one side of the story. I feel there is more to this story than we know...

I feel the title of your post raises alarm bells and there really is no need to sensationalize...all medications, for humans and dogs carry risks we need to be careful and make it our business to check side effects and risks and ask questions about what we take and what we give to our animals.

I am surprised at the amount of people who give meds to animals or themselves that are prescribed and when you ask "what are they for how do they help" etc. they tell me they don't know!

Margaret C
6th May 2013, 11:17 PM
Not a bad idea to be reminded that even commonly used drugs can be badly tolerated by some dogs. One of my Japanese Chins can't take metacam.

RodRussell
6th May 2013, 11:30 PM
Rod, as I've pointed out on the other site you posted on it's only one side of the story. I feel there is more to this story than we know...

I feel the title of your post raises alarm bells and there really is no need to sensationalize...all medications, for humans and dogs carry risks we need to be careful and make it our business to check side effects and risks and ask questions about what we take and what we give to our animals.

I am surprised at the amount of people who give meds to animals or themselves that are prescribed and when you ask "what are they for how do they help" etc. they tell me they don't know!

All I did was post a link to a newspaper article and let the article speak for itself, primarily for information purposes. I was interested in it, and I thought others might be, too, since Rimadyl is frequently prescribed for CM/SM. I don't know the other side of the story. That's all the newspaper article published on the subject.

The title was not intended as a conclusion or a sensational comment; it essentially is a paraphrase of the headline of the article. In fact it is milder than the headline of the article.

pippa
7th May 2013, 11:10 AM
I take your point Rob, just think a lot of these things get blown way out of proportion and we rarely get to the real story. It can scare some people as not everyone will read things the right way and can be influenced by these kind of posts.

Maybe if the story your linked had given more detail like both sides of the story...? Newspapers publish stories everyday and most of them are a little far from the truth, some further than others...

it's like those stories that pop up on Facebook with wild claims about something and then we find out it's been started by one (usually untrue) story that goes viral but a lot of people get taken in by them.

Maybe your post was a little premature regardless of whether you meant well as in thinking others may be interested in it because your link gave very little info and was all one sided.

RodRussell
7th May 2013, 05:01 PM
I take your point Rob, just think a lot of these things get blown way out of proportion and we rarely get to the real story. It can scare some people as not everyone will read things the right way and can be influenced by these kind of posts.

Maybe if the story your linked had given more detail like both sides of the story...? Newspapers publish stories everyday and most of them are a little far from the truth, some further than others...

it's like those stories that pop up on Facebook with wild claims about something and then we find out it's been started by one (usually untrue) story that goes viral but a lot of people get taken in by them.

Maybe your post was a little premature regardless of whether you meant well as in thinking others may be interested in it because your link gave very little info and was all one sided.

Pippa, I've been a newspaper journalist, and I can tell you from that experience that when certain lawsuits get filed, they are newsworthy. But when a lawsuit is filed, the only information usually available about the matter is what the "complaint" states. The rest of the story is yet to come.

I found value in the article because it was about a drug often prescribed by veterinarians for dogs with CM/SM. The message to take away is that dogs possibly may die from Rimadyl and that care should be taken when giving it to your dogs. I have found that another popular drug, pimobendan, can kill dogs, too. This knowledge is, I think, important information for cavalier owners. If you don't care to know about it, then just skip over those posts.

pippa
7th May 2013, 05:58 PM
I have found that another popular drug, pimobendan, can kill dogs, too. This knowledge is, I think, important information for cavalier owners. If you don't care to know about it, then just skip over those posts.


I could skip over those posts but I am also entitled to my opinion on your post, take for example your statement about Pimobendan, it can help dogs a lot too my Pippin has been much better with it and I feel it has prolonged his life and he has not got CHF, and I would think it has helped more dogs than it has killed. I'll say again ALL DRUGS HAVE RISKS...we need to make it our job to consult with vets thoroughly about what is prescribed, although I feel even that would not suit you as I have an excellent vet and you once implied or actually said that she didn't know what she was doing. It was when I posted about Pippin being on Pimobendan and a weeks trial of Fortekor you said...

" If the MVD is only grade 1 or 2, then I doubt the panting and lack of energy are due to MVD.

Fortekor is an ACE-inhibitor, and the official consensus statement of board certified cardiologists in the US -- the ACVIM Consensus Statement -- does not recommend giving any cavalier any drugs, ACE-inhibitor or otherwise, if all the dog has is a mild murmur, like a grade 1 or 2, unless the dog's heart is clearly enlarged.

I am wondering if your vet knows what she is doing."... You are not a vet and if you didn't agree with what I said she was doing for Pippin you too could have skipped over the post. lets leave it there and agree to disagree :)

RodRussell
7th May 2013, 06:45 PM
... It was when I posted about Pippin being on Pimobendan and a weeks trial of Fortekor you said...

" If the MVD is only grade 1 or 2, then I doubt the panting and lack of energy are due to MVD.

Fortekor is an ACE-inhibitor, and the official consensus statement of board certified cardiologists in the US -- the ACVIM Consensus Statement -- does not recommend giving any cavalier any drugs, ACE-inhibitor or otherwise, if all the dog has is a mild murmur, like a grade 1 or 2, unless the dog's heart is clearly enlarged.

I am wondering if your vet knows what she is doing."... You are not a vet and if you didn't agree with what I said she was doing for Pippin you too could have skipped over the post. lets leave it there and agree to disagree :)

Pippa, the difference is, you were arguing that I should not have posted the link to the Rimadyl article at all.

I don't have to be a veterinarian to know what veterinary researchers write about pimobendan and ACE-inhibitors. In addition to the invaluable ACVIM Consensus Statement cited above (http://cavalierhealth.org/images/acvim_guidelines_ccvhd_2009.pdf), I read a lot of research reports about MVD and its treatment. Here is a link to those articles: http://cavalierhealth.org/mvd2.htm#Veterinary_Resources

pippa
7th May 2013, 08:27 PM
I have read these articles and I still state that Pimobendan has helped MY DOG and a few others I know of...I myself have to take medication that is allowed for sale in all or most European countries but not the US as there are risks I say again WITH ALL MEDICATIONS.

Also when I posted about Pippin before I was asking for the advice of people who had their dogs on these meds. I wasn't asking for your one sided opinion on my vet or my dog, so please stop being so negative...BTW I still don't think you needed to post about Rimadyl as it was a one sided view and many people have good results with it.

You don't agree, fine, let's leave it there...please.

RodRussell
7th May 2013, 08:57 PM
I have read these articles and I still state that Pimobendan has helped MY DOG and a few others I know of...I myself have to take medication that is allowed for sale in all or most European countries but not the US as there are risks I say again WITH ALL MEDICATIONS.

Also when I posted about Pippin before I was asking for the advice of people who had their dogs on these meds. I wasn't asking for your one sided opinion on my vet or my dog, so please stop being so negative...BTW I still don't think you needed to post about Rimadyl as it was a one sided view and many people have good results with it.

You don't agree, fine, let's leave it there...please.

So, Pippa, you still insist upon trying to edit (or I should say, "edit out") my posts. First, we've had three (count 'em: 3) cavaliers on pimobendan, so I qualified, under your strict editorial standards, to respond to your inquiry about pimo. Second, I don't need to post any comments anywhere, but if a dog dies of a drug frequently prescribed to CM/SM cavaliers, and the vet gets sued for prescribing that drug, I should be allowed to post a link to an article on that subject under the SM and MVD forum here.

Just because many dogs have good results from pimo, or get relief from Rimadyl, does not mean that stories about dogs dying from the premature administration of pimo, or the overdose of Rimadyl, should be banned from being posted on bulletin boards such as this one.

When you start your own email list, Pippa, you may make your own tight, restrictive rules about what may be posted. On my Yahoo email list (http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/MVDincavaliers/), we have no restrictions as to access, and if member want to post about CKCS health topics other than MVD, then may do so and have done so.

pippa
7th May 2013, 09:24 PM
I was referring to your opinion on my vet as you well know and I asked for advice on how people's dogs got on with this drug along with another one not pimobendan alone, so regardless of how many Cavaliers you had on the drug that was not my question, CHECK THE OLD POST what I DIDN'T ask for was your statistics not once did I ask for anyone's opinion on whether my dog should be on it.

RE, this original post I am not trying to edit or restrict your posts I just stated that your post was negative and one sided, and it is, it was about one dog and the article you linked doesn't explain much of the story at all.

Post what you like but don't keep trying to convince me to agree with you as for your statement.....

we have no restrictions as to access, and if member want to post about CKCS health topics other than MVD, then may do so and have done so.


I never said you or any other member couldn't, so get off your high horse and lighten up.

RodRussell
7th May 2013, 09:43 PM
... it was about one dog and the article you linked doesn't explain much of the story at all.

Pippa, the link explained the entire story thus far.



... so get off your high horse and lighten up.

Lighten up? That's ironical, Pippa!

pippa
7th May 2013, 11:53 PM
Owners of dead Labrador retriever sue New York veterinarian for prescribing Rimadyl. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/vet_rx_killed_our_dog_suit_Novv3EcGtuFhls400nuCvN


This article barely gives any details. And Rimadyl apparently does have a warning label, according to this article in USA Today.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2005-04-11-dog-pain-usat_x.htm

[QUOTE=RodRussell;431170]Pippa, the link explained the entire story thus far

I still only see ONE side of this story in the link, clearly someone else feels it is lacking in detail...I may have being wrong in saying lighten up, what I mean is don't always look for the negatives, try posting something positive about Cavaliers..

All I'm saying is post when you can present all of the story not just one side of it, but clearly you have a problem with this and an opinion on certain medications that you feel you have to share, so go ahead, be all doom and gloom. I have made my point and have nothing more to add.

RodRussell
8th May 2013, 12:30 AM
... All I'm saying is post when you can present all of the story not just one side of it, but clearly you have a problem with this and an opinion on certain medications that you feel you have to share, so go ahead, be all doom and gloom. I have made my point and have nothing more to add.

Well that's good, so maybe I'll get one more crack at it. Pippa, you apparently are trying -- but woefully failing -- to read my mind. I have no problem with presenting both sides, or many sides, of a story. But for this story, it was fully contained in the linked newspaper article, so a link to the article gets you to the whole story as it has been told publicly to date.

I am not "all doom and gloom" about pimobendan or carprofen (Rimadyl), or whatever. I think pimo, when prescribed at the proper time, is "a silver bullet", as one cardiologist wrote about it. I think carprofen, when properly prescribed and closely monitored, likewise is a valuable NSAID. (As does Dr. Rusbridge in her treatment guideline -- http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/syringomyelia/docs/treatalgo.pdf) But I certainly don't see the need to interject the full range of pro and con arguments about either drug when all I am doing is relaying what I found to be an interesting and somewhat startling bit of information I found in my newspaper this past week.

Your view about what I think is just flat wrong.