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Jen
15th August 2005, 04:10 PM
Per our neuro at the U, we had Abbey's lumbar xray on Friday, and she also got a full dental done as well. Her teeth look fabulous, white as a puppy! :D
The good news is that we're now only dealing with one issue as her lumbar xray came back totally normal. We also had her knees xrayed as she's been biting at her legs. They came back totally normal as well. So, as we suspected, we now know that we have to move forward with the MRI as her symptoms are still happening and our vet has no explanation for them other than possibly SM. We're still researching our options for the MRI, but intend to have it scheduled sooner than later so we can understand what we're dealing with.

Maxxs_Mummy
15th August 2005, 05:53 PM
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jen & Abbey}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Maxx is now on Frusemide and doing really well. He is even playing again :D

Karlin
15th August 2005, 06:16 PM
This is great news that you are getting some definitive answers to narrow down what you are dealing with. Let us know what you decide on for the MRI and if/when it is scheduled. We will all be rooting for Abbey!

Maxxs_Mummy
15th August 2005, 09:49 PM
Jen, if you go for the MRI, can I suggest that you go for the full one (if you can afford it, or the insurance will pay). Maxx only has a slight herniation but does have a syrinx right at the bottom of his spine. this was not picked up on x-ray and nor would it have been picked up on a 'parti' MRI.

I'd hate for you to pay out for an MRI and be told Abbey is clear and for her to have a similar problem to Maxx.

I am however, hoping for a clear result for you both :D icon_flowers

Jen
15th August 2005, 10:14 PM
We are doing a full MRI, because yes, she is sensitive in her lower back. She doesn't yelp, but when the neuro was putting presure on that area she'd quickly sit. Who knows if she thinks this is what you want her to do or if it's actually a sensitive area, but with a full MRI we'll hopefully find out what's going on.
She has the typical neck scatching, face rubbing, limb chewing behaviors as well. We didn't know the lower back was a potential issue until we saw the neuro. :?

Maxxs_Mummy
15th August 2005, 10:47 PM
She sounds almost identical in symptoms to maxx, Jen :~( However, it's not all bad. The Frusemide seem to be making a real improvement to him and he hardly has any problems now - long may it last and I hope if Abbey is positive then she is the same :)

rory
16th August 2005, 03:21 AM
I will be crossing my fingers that the MRI will be clear and it's just allergies or something. ;)

Maxx's mum -- So Maxx was just scratching and the furosemide has decreased the scratching??

Maxxs_Mummy
16th August 2005, 10:34 AM
He wasn't 'just' scratching. He had a variety of symptoms :?

Bottom scooting
Sitting down and rolling backwards, trying to bite his back paws. Not being able to reach them and crying in pain.
Being in so much pain his temperature was going so high that his gums were blood red and burning :(
Licking paws obsessively.
Scratching his ears and crying.
Being really lethargic and generally 'down in the dumps'.

I really can't emphasise enough how much better he is on Frusemide. He is on 20mg a day and it really does seem to be working :D - Long may it last!

I have also put him onto a hypo-allergenic diet (James Wellbeloved) & bought him some 'joint formula' with chondroitin, glucosamine and ester-c.

Jen
16th August 2005, 02:28 PM
Donna how old is Maxx? When did you first notice his symptoms?
I need to start paying attention to Abbey's gums, sometimes they seem pretty red :(
Her new thing this past week is to roll on her back while she's smooshing the sides of her face into the rug. She only does it in the mornng when she first wakes up. :cry:

Maxxs_Mummy
16th August 2005, 02:52 PM
Maxx has always done that, Jen. But, to be truthful I have never worried about it as my GSD used to do it too. It's when he 'face rubs' the ceramic tiles in the bathrooms it upsets me as he 'smashes' his face down into them :(

Oh yes, Maxx is 6 on the 21st of this month and he probably really started with his symptoms around 6 mths ago but he has always bottom scooted. We used to think it was his glands and I was forever getting the vet to empty them :roll:

Jen
16th August 2005, 03:06 PM
Abbey's a scooter too, but when we've taken her in, her glands are full. Sometimes though, she'll continue to scoot afterwards.
SM drives me insane! icon_yikes There are so many symptoms that could be attributed to so many things!

rory
16th August 2005, 04:29 PM
Rory rolls, too, but I don't know if this is an SM symptom or not. He seems to be happy when he does it and it seems more like a playful thing to me.

he's so far not exhibiting pain more than the occasional yelp. sometimes he bites as his knees/groin area, but then againn he's a boy... so i usually just assume he's cleaning himself. :oops: but this morning i noticed that he was actually biting at his knee... ugh.

Jen - remember way back in Feb when you PM'd me about Abbey yelping and whipping around at her backend like Rory did as a puppy??? Maybe it's all SM... :(

Maxx's mum -- I'm glad to hear you've had such good results w/ the furosemide. Given that rory's symptoms seem pretty mild cmpared to so many of the other dogs on the chiari list, i am thinking this may be a better route for him than surgery at this point. then if it continues to progress even w/ the drugs, consider surgery.

I am, of course, jumping the gun - as everyone likes to point out. we'll know for sure what the diagnosis is on Friday. :?

Karlin
16th August 2005, 04:41 PM
Geoff Skerritt firmly believes the frusemide halts and sometimes reverses syrinx development in most cases, not all. He has been using it for years I think. Lots of other neuros/vets seem sceptical 'in theory' but I too think it seems to halt scratching and therefore must be doing something. There are a couple of AC list people who say they have seen distinct results. It has so few side effects that it is worth using I think. But be aware there may be some initial accidents -- they build up a lot of urine in the 60-90 minutes after taking it so don't give right before bedtime and be sure you can get them out for a walk, ideall one at aroun 60-90 min. and another wee maybe an hour or two after that. Leo has wet himself a few times at the start; he just didn;t seem aware that he was leaking, poor little man.

Leo only gets 10mg; he weighs only 7 kg/15.4lbs. The dosage is based on weight. I think 1mg per kilo or 2 lbs.

The rolling and face rubbing is normal behaviour. It's when they do it because of face irritation/pain that it is a problem. Leo rubs his face but it doesn;t seem to have any connection to pain; he's quite cheerful when he's doing this. They both writhe all around on their backs when they are in a good mood! :lol: Clare does acknowledge hard face rubbing as a symptom.

Jen
16th August 2005, 04:41 PM
Yup, she still does that--she'll whip around and look at her butt, then sit and chew on her knee. Her yelping is the least of her symptoms, she's only done that a few times. Considering this, we'll probably opt for meds at this point as well.
We never really paid attention to her rolling around, sometimes it looks like play, but then we started to realize that she's started to do it only in the mornings---like how Rory scratches in the mornings.
We've been keeping a journal of her behaviors, and what we thought were random issues seem to be happening more frequently. :(

Seriously, if her MRI shows nothing, I'll be the one needing meds! icon_yikes This is all making me nuts!

Maxxs_Mummy
17th August 2005, 10:46 AM
Rory's Mum, to be honest I am not a surgery person. It seems to me that a lot of dogs that I have heard about are still getting a lot of symptoms / pain after surgery. My Vet tends to agree with me too but it is of course a personal choice.

I shouldn't worry too much about the rolling around rubbing their backs - just about every farm animal I have ever seen will do it too and have been doing it no doubt for centuries. it is apparently a behaviour that goes back to when animals were wild - they rolled around (especially after a meal) in dust or grass to remove traces of food from their coats.

Karlin, Maxx is 14.3kg and has 20mg of Frusemide - apparently this is the dose that Mr Skerritt advised James to put him on. So far we haven't had any accidents and as I mentioned earlier he has his dose around 5pm as I know I (or someone else) will definitely be home after that to let him out.

I can't stress enough how well he is doing on it :D He does still scratch but he no longer yelps and moans :D Besides, when you think about it, it's quite normal to have an itch and scratch sometimes LOL It does seem to be different scratching to the SM scratching as well - more 'normal' if you like :D

Jen, have you spoken to your Vet about the morning rolling etc? I know I haven't seen Abbey but it does sound like it could be normal behaviour. You know like we have a shower etc, she could be rolling around to 'clean' her coat. I've known lots of dogs do this in the mornings and after meals and most aren't Cavaliers. This is only my theory though LOL

Jen
17th August 2005, 02:20 PM
The rolling around is more like she rolls from side to side smooshing her face into the rug. When she's done she looks like Don King, her bangs are a mess! :lol:
It seems she's concentrating more on her face than on her back. She also rubs her face on the furniture too. I just think it's odd that she just started the rolling thing in the mornings. I haven't mentioned it to our vet but plan to. He knows she rubs on the furniture and grass though.

Karlin
17th August 2005, 09:39 PM
When she's done she looks like Don King, :lol:

Jaspar looks like this all the time right now. He is in the midst of losing his puppy coat and has all this long wispy hair on top of his head. half the time it all stands on end looking like a combover in the wind. Leo's tri coat seems to come in gradually and the changeover isn't very noticeable, but Jaspar has all this wispy long puffy hair then the coarser adult hair down his back. I don;t know how long this will go on for but he really looks raggedy.

Maxxs_Mummy
18th August 2005, 10:09 AM
Hahaha if we let Maxx's coat grow too long he gets that long wispy bit. It looks hilarious as he also grows 'sideburns' too. the kids say he looks like an 'old teacher' LOL

Jen
18th August 2005, 12:47 PM
Yup, Abbey grows the sideburns too, we call them curb-feelers!! We usually keep them short, but when they're long it's hilarious, she looks manic! :p