View Full Version : Cloe's 2nd Litter

18th October 2005, 10:08 PM






I hope you enjoy these, already they are so big, i have chosen "Lady" the pup i am going to keep. will take a close up of her tomorrow

31st October 2005, 02:54 PM




Here are more pics, they are now 2 weeks old

Cathy T
31st October 2005, 02:56 PM
What a precious pile of puppies!

31st October 2005, 03:14 PM
Oh they are simply adorable!! :( I want to play with them.

31st October 2005, 03:14 PM
MY oh My how do you manage, they are so gorgeous.
Do you have perspective homes for all of them yet, just as well I don't
live in Ireland.
We will be going to my breeder's this coming wkd and she has a litter
that is 6 wks old. Unforturnately they are all spoken for but she is
breeding her Ruby with a Black and Tan in November and I did put
myself on her waiting list a year ago for a female Ruby but I think
if I do get one I would rather have another male.

Just from all I have read and my experience with my Dudley I have
a feeling another male would be better suited.
In my heart I always wanted a female human or furkid, but something
is edging me towards another male if all works out we will have to
wait and see.
I don't think I would ever be able to handle a birthing. icon_yikes
Good for you they look healthy and so content, funny how fast they
grow and how their features change so quickly when so young.
Great Job :D :D

31st October 2005, 09:50 PM
Thanks Linda, i have homes for 2 so far, as i havent advertised them yet, will be doing that once i get them registered, sending forms off tomorrow and setting it all in motion.

cant wait till they start playing, but on the other hand, my god how will we cope keeping track of 7 of them around the place, Max is dying to play with them and is ready for some fun!!!

31st October 2005, 11:24 PM
Oh wow! They have changed so much, what precious little bundles they all are.

Linda, the boys are just so loving, I prefer boy cavaliers any day!

1st November 2005, 01:02 AM
I bet those little darlins will be snatched up real quick. icon_drivingcar
I don't know what it is about rubies, I just love them but of course I
would'nt mind a tri either.
What is it about these little ones, they just melt your heart.

I bet Max is sitting on pins & needles, I know my boys would be me too of course,:lol: I can't wait to see pics of them runnin all over the place.

Maxxs Mommy:
I just have a feeling, that a male would be better for some reason.
Dudley is such a love bug and not the least bit moody. Funny though
how I longed for a wee girl and here I have a handful of lads. icon_yikes
I am still stunned that she had all rubies.

16th November 2005, 01:07 PM
Fi they are gorgeous have you any up to date photos i would love to see how they are doing.

Sarah xx

16th November 2005, 02:12 PM
I'll take two, thanks. :lol: :lol:

16th November 2005, 04:32 PM
How is Cloe's belly doing??

16th November 2005, 04:35 PM
omg!!! i,m getting all broody :D

16th November 2005, 06:17 PM
i got more pictures on my site not had time to put them up here


there is the link hope you like it taken last thursday!!! if you look at teh 4 week pics!!!!

16th November 2005, 11:30 PM
Oh Fi, those yummy puppy ears and noses. How will you bear to part with them? It's going to be soooooooooooooo hard for you. Are you going to keep one?

16th November 2005, 11:35 PM
They are just adorable, no wonder they are snatchin them up
how can you tell them apart and who is takin who ???????
I would be goin icon_banana icon_banana icon_banana icon_banana 's

17th November 2005, 11:14 AM
just been looking at the other pics on your website they are all adorable.....bet you have homes lined up for them already......was their dad a ruby?

17th November 2005, 08:56 PM
Ah Linda you see when someone pays me a deposit i take a picture of htat pup with the new owner, and even though there are like 3 sets of twins most of the duplicates are one female and one male!

and then there is our wee runt! i dont like that word but he is a wee small one!

i have the 3 boys left and no calls this week.

im not worried. not yet anyway.

they are so funny, its so funny watching them try to scratch and fall over, but we all have to walk around so slowely as now they follow you it to the kitchen and im still afraid of one falling into the water bowl, so its full alert when they are out.!

17th November 2005, 08:58 PM
Again, I'll take two! Send me the runt!!

18th November 2005, 07:25 AM
Hi Jen ok, they are yours!! it will be hard to let them go, but i am keeping one so it will make it a tad easier.

they are hungry little things but i cant imagine birthing two of them even simultaniously!

Bruce H
18th November 2005, 12:25 PM
they are so funny, its so funny watching them try to scratch and fall over, but we all have to walk around so slowely as now they follow you it to the kitchen and im still afraid of one falling into the water bowl, so its full alert when they are out.!

You can always tell a breeder by how they walk. You learn the "breeder shuffle" very early on! We also have a habit of running into things because we're watching the floor rather than where we're going :lol:

18th November 2005, 01:02 PM
LOL Bruce! ver good, i waled into the hamster cage and that wasnt even in teh same room as pups!!! mind u he [the hamster] hes learnt how to open his cage. me not impressed!!!!!!

thinking of getting some sort of pen for the pups if i am going to continue to breed, but i am somewhat disheatned that i am being branded one of these bad breeders .....

anyway.... happy days at home and all going well

Bruce H
18th November 2005, 01:37 PM
Once our puppies get mobile like you are describing, here's what we do. We buy a piece of sheet vinyl and put it on the floor, then put an x-pen on top of the sheet vinyl. Inside the x-pen we place their sleeping crate with the door removed so they can go in and out at will. That gives them a pen that's 4' x 4' to be in when they're not running around the house. In fact, when Star had her litter of 7 last year, we put 2 x-pens together so they had a larger area; will definately have to do that with her upcoming litter of 8 (I am still in shock about that!). And with two big litters coming up, looks like I'll be buying more sheet vinyl and another x-pen.

If you don't want to be looked at as a back-yard breeder, its going to take a lot of time and money. The first thing I would say is to get into showing and watch who is winning so you know what a good dog looks like as opposed to an average dog. Talk to the breeders who are showing AFTER the show (NEVER before). If you find the dog you want to show isn't really show quality, talk to the breeders you have met about getting a show quality dog. Kris and I firmly believe that you can only be a legitimate breeder if you also show.

As far as actually breeding, I would say you need to need to do a lot of reading about it. Buy every book and video tape you can get your hands on and study them. Then go out and buy the equipment they recommend.

Ideally, see if you can find an established breeder to mentor you. Kris and I were very lucky in that we found a local person who mentored us in the beginning.

Finally, all this is going to cost you a LOT of money. Not just up-front money, but on an on-going basis as well. Please don't think you're going to make money at this, especially when you include showing on a regular basis in your costs. Every year Kris and I think maybe this year we'll break even, but so far it hasn't happened.

18th November 2005, 02:01 PM
Thanks Bruce but a couple of points....

1. what is an x pen?

2. I would ahve loved to show, but Cloe is not show dog quality and Neither is max and both for different reasons. i do not think because i do not show that i am a bad breeder.

3. Eveylin, is a top breeder here in Dublin and all her dogs are champions, i breed from her and use her dogs as studs. More over, she spent alot of her time answering all my questions and has always been on hand to help and guide. i have bought all the books videos and not in it for the money, as you say you spend more then you make.

4. so concidering i have done everything on your list except show does that make me a bad breeder??? i sure hope not.

5. dont know why today and last few days i have been so dishearned, but i think these back yard breeders and puppy farmers have alot to answer for, i also think that if a bitch is only allowed to have one litter a year you should not be allowed register more then that. how can she heal and grow if you constantly breed of her, the lady is your pet first and a mammy second so you should treasure her and mind her and do what is best for her health or i believe you will shorten her life span.

i want my Cloe with me for as long as possible.....

sorry for my rant but feel better now. XX

18th November 2005, 05:30 PM

A pen is something like a crate, except it is much bigger and has
no top on it. My husband made one for Dudley when he was
a puppy I will try and find the pictures and post for you.
It kept all the little hands off him when he was so small.
I believe it was about 6 ft by 4 ft
He looked lost in it, but we also put a sheet of linoleum down and
placed the pen on the top and put paper down for peeing.


18th November 2005, 05:51 PM
Here is what we have instead of an x-pen


If that doesn't work you can just google precision puppy pen

Bruce H
18th November 2005, 06:25 PM

Yes, we have two of those, too. We use them as an intermediate step between the welping box and the x-pen. They move to the x-pen when they are starting to get very active.

Bruce H
18th November 2005, 06:52 PM

Maybe I didn't understand your post. It sounded like you were discouraged by being considered a bad breeder. I hope you didn't get that idea from me, if you did that was not and is not my impression of you. If I did give you that impression, it was not intentional and I apologize. I agonized over my use of the term backyard breeder because I didn't consider you a "bad" breeder and I thought that it sounded better than your use of bad breeder. Heck, I thought you sounded just like Kris and I when we first started out. Besides, if I thought you were a bad breeder, I would not have sent you the PM that I did a while back.

As far as showing, let's just agree to disagree. I know there are a lot of breeders out there who would disagree with me on that point.

Again, if I gave you the impression I thought you were a bad breeder, I apologize. My posts to you during your entire experience were meant only to help you based on my experience. You have a beautiful litter of rubies and my hat is off to anyone who can produce such a beautiful litter.

Bruce H
18th November 2005, 07:01 PM

Here is what an x-pen looks like www.petwerks.com/prodpage.cfm?prod_code=PP106 The term x-pen is just an abreviation for exercise pen. They come in various heights and consist of 8 panels hinged to each other, 24" wide. You can put as many together as you want to get any size you want. They're really nice for traveling as well as for puppies, which is our primary use.

18th November 2005, 10:23 PM
Hi! What pretty puppies!! They are a handful, I'm sure!!

We got an x-pen for Cedar. We didnt use it as a pen, though. They open up flat; they dont have to be enclosing. We opened up ours to expand over entry ways that are too big for babygates. We have an open plan house, and it was really great to help house train Cedar. We first used the x-pen as a barrier to limit Cedar to a single room (the family room). Now, we've moved it back, so she has access to the family room, kitchen and dining rooms. (It also keeps her in the living room if we're on the other side!) When she demonstrates that she's ready to have more access, we will remove the pen barrier.

The x-pen is extremely versatile and I would recommend it for puppies throughout all of their stages of development (as long as they can't jump over them!! :P )

21st November 2005, 02:54 PM
sorr for the delay in reply to this but i only found it again now, as the email telling me it was here to be read got buiried....

Bruce, im sorry if i had a go at you, it was really not my intention, i wrote what i did on a day filled with frustration and anger from something a woman said to me.

She was horrible, anyway hopefully she wont come around to my home again.

bruce you ahve been of tremendous support to me during this time, as has every one this board, and i feel dreadfull that i may have ups et you


21st November 2005, 04:30 PM
I think for ANY breeder to be a good breeder of cavaliers, given all the quite serious health issues that threaten this breed's future right now, then Irish breeders north and south really must start doing:

* cardiac tests

* following the guidelines to only breed from heart clear dogs who are 5, or from heart-clear dogs at 2.5 IF both parents are heart clear still at 5 (this is standard across the world for cavalier breeders and sadly ireland, one of the original homes of the breed, has not followed much less encouraged these very basic guidelines for trying to reduce the incidence of early death from heart failure. :cry:

*hip scoring and patellas

*eye exams

These, as Bruce and other breeders on the board will confirm, are the basic, standard tests good breeders worldwide do, and indeed many of the major national breed clubs require them of breeders.

The average lifespan of a cavalier right now is only 7-10 years (the same as giant breeds which are known to have very shortened lifespans due to size). It should be more like 13-14 years for a toy breed! Half of all cavaliers will have a heart murmur and the beginning of serious heart disease by age *5*. This is why it is so important for those entrusted with the responsibility of breeding to heart test in particular. Heart disease became endemic to the breed because of casual breeding and it can successfully be bred away from but only if breeders make a commitment to improving heart health. I have seen friends shattered by the suffering and early death of their loved cavaliers at only age 6 or 7 in this country. This should not still be happening anymore as a regular occurence in Ireland but it is.

SM is another issue too where the Irish breed club to my knowledge is neither discussing nor informing breeders of its level of seriousness. At the very least, I'd hope that the breed clubs will be a source of information so that breeders can consider the issues and make informed decisions on how they wish to proceed at this time, even if they do not themselves issue any guidelines or recommendations.

The UK clubs give a lot of support to breeders around MVD and testing and they have low cost heart clinics at many of the shows. I'd like to see the same happening here.

The standard recommendation from all the breed clubs in the US is not to buy a puppy from a breeder who cannot show you the heart certificates for parents and grandparents of a litter, and other health certs as well. I'd like to see the Irish club follow suit -- not least because all breeders are supposed to breed for the improvement of the breed; but without heart testing, this cannot be possible with cavaliers unless the full heart history and longevity going back many generations for each dog is known to the breeder.

What I hope is that anyone who comes to this board and considers taking on the responsibility of the future of the breed -- which is what every cavalier breeder does, because he or she makes the decision on which genes will be considered good enough to be sent out into further generations of cavaliers -- will find support, information on best practice, inspiration and the enthusiasm to give these dogs a real future through careful and health-conscious breeding. :)

23rd November 2005, 06:21 PM
Well said Karlin. While searching for a puppy I found so many "breeders" out there that had very little info on their dogs genetic heritage. Thanks to this forum I feel I went into finding a puppy armed with a lot of good information and had the right questions to ask. The breeder I bought Fauna from was able to supply me with information (certified) going back to her GGG grandparents on the dad's side and GG grandparent's on mom's - heart and eyes. She offered this info to me in advance so I could do my research before even meeting Fauna. Her kennel was clean, her dogs all healthy, happy and well socialized. When I arrived her 3 children were snuggled up on the couch watching TV - each had a puppy to cuddle. Fauna is so much more confident and "brave" than Beatrice was due to starting out in such an environment. I thank you and all the others on this forum for helping me go in so well prepared. This was such a different experience than the last one.