View Full Version : Hi- I'm a newbie with Questions!
8th February 2006, 02:20 AM
Just want to introduce myself- my name is Jackie and my new pup is Buddy- I brought him home 2 weeks ago after years of waiting for the right time to get a dog and needless to say, I am on cloud 9 :)
(Pictures to come- he's 14 weeks and as cute as a button , blenheim, with freckles on his nose)
Anyway, I'm glad I found this forum because I still have so many questions and everyone here seems so knowledgable- I'm relieved really...!
First off, I am wondering if it is common for these guys to poop in their crates this late on- despite what time I feed him and how much of his crate is "closed off"- Buddy doesn't seem to get the whole "don't soil where you sleep" deal- which has been frustrating to say the least. Around what age does this change? (His breeder raised him with a litter box in his crate- which I think is part of the problem).
Also- Leptospira? Breeder says no, but vet says yes- Plus, we live in Philadelphia (next to a park) which is home to many many mice and rats... Buddy got his 2nd booster yesterday and was very sore afterward so now I am especially worried about how he would react to the Lepto.
ANy advice would be much appreciated! Other than the one teany crate problem, I am proud to say Buddy is a perfect sweet little angel!
Can't wait to meet everyone and thanks again!
Jackie and Bud
8th February 2006, 09:55 AM
Welcome to site and welcome to the world of cavaliers, I would suggest firstly that you thoroughly wash the crate out with a pet cleaner, as normal detergents just masked the smell.... everytime you feed him, or he wakes up he will want to go to the toilet, place him where you want him to go (other newspaper or a wee mate), you can associate it this with a word such as 'go to wee' and when he has completed the task, praise him and treat him, this will take time and you may have to keep putting him on the place, if he was with a breeder I should think he associates the crate as a toilet even if there is no litter box... alternatively after you clean the crate, place his food in there - he should'nt mess where his food is.... he is learning a new routine so will still take a few weeks to get it right. Bruce is probably your best bet in line with what the injection covers.
8th February 2006, 10:24 AM
First off, welcome to the forum!
Second, it is unfortunate (andfrankly I think very odd) that the breeder placed a litter box in a crate (do you mean the box in which she had her litter of pups?), though it is hard to know what the arrangement actually was like from your brief description! Were all the puppies in the crate with the mother? And could she not allow them out to toilet? Normally, the mother herself pushes the pups out of the litter box and they are not allowed to poop or pee in it -- that is how they learn from early on how to keep their den area clean, and that is the basis on which you can fairly easily (in relative terms! :) ) housetrain a dog. Or are you saying he was alone in his crate with a cat litter box to use for toiletting? :( If so that is very strange practice indeed, and you will face a bit of a task to retrain him. You will be able to do it; but I am wondering if he might not need to be disassociated from the crate entirely at this point (that's what I would do). I think I would confine him to a room rather than a crate, or at this age, set up an X-pen (exercise pen) and keep him in that in a kitchen for example. You can return to crate training later on.
Also, are you just talking about night-time toiletting when you crate him? And also, how long are you leaving him in the crate? A puppy of Buddy's age really cannot last more than about 2-3 hours without being taken outside to go, though at night you could take him out once. Though they gradually are able to last thru the night (as their lack of activity makes it easier for them to hold it) he is really at the age where you need to be getting up at probably 3 am-ish to take him out to go. He's still so small that expecting him not to soil would be like expecting a 6 month old baby not to soil a diaper overnight. Puppies require a lot of hands on time in the early months much like a baby -- you will need to be there to let him out to toilet during the night and I assume he is not being crated all day -- a full day in a crate would be impossible for a pup so small and on the off chance that this is the case, either he needs to be in day care (many boarding places do this) or someone needs to come home midday to walk and toilet him.
I strongly recommend ordering Shirlee Kalstone's book, How to HOustrain a Dog in Seven Days. While it will take longer, the book sets out proper schedules for various ages of pup or dog and explains crate training. There's a previous query i n this sevtion onm crate training and I have a link there which explains crate training as well and notes how you could use confinement to a room (or X-pen) as well. Personally I think it is useful to crate train but not by keeping the pup constantly in a crate. That's not much of a life for a dog especially its whole puppy-hood. I think a room or an x-pen is much nicer, used in association with a crate. A pup can be crate trained very nicely without having to spend the whole day going in and out of a crate (my two dogs are evidence that this is true).
If your vet advises lepto for your area I would get lepto (or if you want, call a couple of vet surgeries and simply ask if they advise lepto for the area in which you live). I have my dogs on a 3 year schedule for everything else but they get lepto annually. It is devastating to lose a dog from this and both mine love to swim, which increases their risk. Mine have no problems with the lepto vax at all.
8th February 2006, 03:58 PM
Thanks csprice and karlin-
I do not know what Buddy's early situation was with his mother, but I saw him around 9 weeks of age in his pen/cage with his 2 liitermates (It was a fairly large pen- plenty big for all 3 of them). They had a bed area, play area and litter/toilet box area in this cage.
Buddy is getting gradually better- he spends very little time in his crate except 2-3 hours during the day when I'm running errands and at nighttime. Since I'm a writer- he spends most of his day with me either curled up on my lap or playing in his area which I have set up nearby. At the end of this week, the vet has advised me to start taking him outside to potty (he's finally fully vaccinated)- up until now, I have been carrying him to a special area in our bathroom where we have a potty box set up. Several times last week- he would not go in this area and as soon as I put him in his crate, he would go right away. In all, he is learning- but very very slowly- but it is good to hear that this type of dog is generally like that and slow to develop- I wasn't sure at first if it was a behavioral problem. My mother was able to housetrain a 6 week old golden retriever puppy within 2 days!
The other thing I have noticed is that Buddy has never had an accident when I have napped with him or fell asleep with him in my bed (he slept thru the night!)- I think in all, I need to make him like his crate more- any ideas? He won't eat in it yet.
Lepto- yeah, I think I will get it for him- I'll probably wait a few weeks so he'll be a bit bigger and able to take the shot better- he was soo sore this week!
8th February 2006, 04:13 PM
Put toys in there and leave the door open so he can go in there when he wants instead of associating you putting him in there.....
9th February 2006, 05:45 PM
They had a bed area, play area and litter/toilet box area in this cage.
Oh that sounds fine then; it had sounded at first like he was squished in a crate with all the litter, or with only a litter box to poop in, etc, which wou;ld give him thw wrong message (crates are for toiletting... :cry: ).
It is pretty hard to toilet train only in a bathroom area indoors -- though again the book I suggested has a section on doing this too.
The other thing I have noticed is that Buddy has never had an accident when I have napped with him or fell asleep with him in my bed (he slept thru the night!)- I think in all, I need to make him like his crate more- any ideas?
:lol: :lol: :lol: Welcome to the wily cavalier!! This is their way of convincing you they should always sleep in your bed. Jaspar did this as a puppy and has never looked back... :roll: Both mine sleep on the bed every night, though they are fine in a crate together when they are boarding at Tara's mum's.
More seriously, you need to remain with him in his toiletting area (indoors or outdoors) as long as it takes and not let him see going in the crate as an option. This may mean you stand there for a LONG time -- we have all been there, some of us in winter! Instead of putting him back in the crate, keep him on your lap so he cannot go anywhere else, don't even put him in the crate. Then, try him again for his business at his toiletting spot in another 20 min or so, til he goes. Once he goes reward with a bit of food and happy praise. You need to imprint him going only where you want, with no other options for him. Also lots of praise for a job well done. Little pieces of cheese are a good reward!
Part of your difficulty right now is probably that he doesn't spend enough happy time in the crate to believe it is supposed to his 'den' and therefore kept clean. Feed him in the crate and give him NO options -- either he eats the food within 15 min. inside the crate, or it comes up until his next scheduled mealtime. No cheating!! I guarantee you he'll be eating in the crate pretty fast. Puppies are fine going without a few meals with this approach. Also, throw small treats in the crate and as suggested keep his toys in there. All things to give the crate positive associations.
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