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I am a new member and am so glad that there is a site such as this one. I would like to find any owners who have bought their puppy from the same breeder as ours. The reason for this is that I would like to know the health of my puppies' relatives, in particular their siblings. Let me explain why - In March 2007 we bought a 12 week old black & tan girl and in April 2007 an 8 week old blenheim girl from the same breeder. In December 2007, when our blenheim was just 10 months old, she died suddenly. When the vet first saw her, he suggested that it may be SM and arranged for an MRI in the morning. I called the breeder and explained what was happening, but she told me that no way could it be SM and that she just needed some rest and that it wouldn't be a good idea to put her through MRI and that vet's only want the money. Unfortunately, we listened to her and cancelled the MRI appointment that morning. By that evening, our beautiful little girl died in the veterinary surgery. I now know why the breeder did not want her to have the MRI. It would have revealed what the 'inherited' problem was. The vet could only say death was a neurological disorder as an autopsy would not have been conclusive. I contacted the Cavalier Club by email asking for answers and if they had heard of any other cavaliers with this problem. They did not even acknowledge. Neither, did the breeder show any signs of compassion. I would have thought they would want to know what problem there was with one of their puppies, but they weren't bothered. Now, our black and tan, who is not yet 2 has been referred to a specialist centre for eyes. The vet has diagnosed cataract. The appointment is for tomorrow morning and I am so nervous. What if she goes blind. The tests will reveal the source of this problem. I suspect, obviously that it is inherited. Is it a coincidence, even unfortunate, that the two puppies, bought from the same breeder have had severe problems. It just can't be. So, if any of you out there have bought your cavalier from this breeder, I would love to hear from you. This particular breeder shows in a big way and is well known in the show circles and cavalier club. So any of you out there know who I mean, please, please, please get in touch. Thanks

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  1. Cleo's Person's Avatar
    Georgio, I know nothing about your breeder and so am afraid I can't help on that front. However, I couldn't read you blog and not reply. I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear how your lost your first cav, and that I hope evenrthing goes well with the appointment at the specialist today for your second cav. Please keep us posted on how she gets on. You might also want to mention your story, without the breeders details as the rules of the board do not permit public discussion of breeders, on the health forum, as this has a lot more traffic and so you will get more help/advice from people who have more experience than I in this regard. I really just wanted say and I hope all goes well today.
  2. Davy's Avatar
    Hi Georgio, I also can not help with the breeder but I do have a cataract blind Cavalier. People are amazed at how well she copes. Although In my dogs case her blindness was from diabetes.

    Cataract operations are now standard practice and I know of one little dog near me that has just had it done on one of his eyes and is now racing around. I think there some other poster on here who have also had the op done but you should post in the health section to get any advice on this.
  3. jasones1's Avatar
    Hi geogio
    I have just read your above post ,and find it to be dam right insulting to people i know,before you actually make comment you should really think what you are about to Write. The comments you are making are totally untrue, did you forget to mention that your cavalier aws running in the forest before it became sick and unwell, did you not speak to a couple of breeders for advice on this situation,Dont you think your cavalier was more likely to have been poisioned,eaten something in the forest, .
    Claiming she died of SM is just unbelieveable,a neurological order is caused by poisioing, i have never heard of a cavalier having dropped dead from SM,yes i have heard of a cavalier having to be put to sleep because of Sm ,but not actually the symtoms you have decribed above.
    And yes the two people you are talking about are well known breeders and they have been rounda long time ,they also do health testing ,so before you make slandering remarks you should really get your facts right.
    before broadcasting that kind of stuff on a forum..
  4. georgio's Avatar
    You seem to be very disturbed about the TRUTH I have stated about our poor little cavalier. It was plain to see that you don't really sound like a genuine pet owner. In fact, you sound more like an unethical breeder??? The language you used was appalling.
    Would like to make it clear to members, that the only walk my cavaliers have each morning is a half hour walk round the block. I live in a suburb on London outskirts, certainly nowhere near a forest. How on earth did you get a story about my cavalier walking in a forest and eating anything poisonous and that is what caused her death. How dare you make this up. She had never ever entered a forest in any of her 10 months of life. Also you say that this particular breeder has health checks on dogs. I hope that this is the case, but all I can say is that I have never seen any of these health checks in the form of certificates for either the puppies or parents. If this was available, wouldn't it make sense to show prospective puppy buyers certificates of health checks.
    What I would also like to make readers aware is that since my first blog, the breeder, which could be you, Jasones1 for all I know, left a very intimidating message on my daughter's mobile phone, threatening us with legal action. Does that sound like a responsible and ethical breeder. Why on earth would I lie? As a relatively new pet owner of two beautiful cavaliers of no intention of showing or breeding, why would I want to discredit a breeder or lie about them? What could I possibly gain by doing this? All I want is for more responsible breeding for this beautiful breed and don't want anybody to go through what we went through.
  5. jasones1's Avatar
    Well goergoi
    I am a pet owner i have 3 cavaliers actually and two are from the people you are talking about one is 8 and the other is two years ,,so where you get your unethical theary from i really dont know,,Read your post i sent again i can not see any bad language used> could you please point that out to me ,
    And secondly why did you buy a puppy without seeing health checks?
    You had a very unfortunate circumstance with your little girl,and i am sorry about that ,but dont state things on forums that are not true.
    Did you not speak to other breeders at the time your girl was sick for advice .
    And yes i love my dogs same has any pet owner .
  6. catie's Avatar
    Hi georgio
    I have a cavalier from the same breeder. I am sorry to hear about your loss. I don't know the details of your dogs illness but I though you might like to hear about Poppy my cavalier. Last July Poppy who is normally very lively became very quite. Over the next few days I became increasingly worried but felt that I could not go to my vet with so few symptoms. ( she had no vomiting or diarrhoea) On the Sunday Poppy seemed worse so I contacted the emergency vet, after I pushed them they agreed to see her. ( they felt I was being a paranoid owner) In the car on the way she really took a turn for the worse, she was rushed in and put straight on a drip and oxygen they said had i been any later she would have died.
    The next day Poppy was transfered to my vet, he put her on Prednisilone and synolux as these treat many illnesses whilst he did tests to find the cause. All the tests came back normal. In the meantime Poppy was getting better. Now that she was stronger an MRI was suggested not to look for SM but some other cause, her symptoms included holding her head down and she a vacant look in her eyes. He explained that SM causes pain and scratching but not illness and death. The scan was sent to Jeff Skerrit. while we waited for the results Poppy recovered. When Poppy was first taken ill I contacted the breeder, she was very worried and rang me every day for a progress report.
    The scan showed that Poppy had inflammatory meningitis, we will never know the cause, it is treated with Prednisilone. On a positive note She has no SM and no malformation very unusual for a cavalier. Mr skerrit said she had the best scan he had ever seen. Poppy only survived due to the quick action of my vet. Meningitis is also described as a neurological disorder.
  7. Karlin's Avatar
    I understand that people are upset over the health of their dogs and also blogs are an area to express personal opinion and one can assume comments may be made that express a passionate opinion. But on both sides there are comments being made that are *not acceptable* within the terms of use you agreed to when you signed up for the board. Please review the Getting Started section for what is appropriate.

    Georgio: I have removed some of the detail from your original post. It is not acceptable to give detail that might identify individuals on the basis of a suspicion that remains unconfirmed as fact. I do fully support your right to make a post as you have, just not with the detail that could identify a given breeder when you are not sure of cause and the actual problem. If people have positive diagnoses they may post that diagnosis and related *facts* such as a breeder or pedigree, but keep in mind that generally I do not allow individual breeders to be discussed.

    Jasones1: You are making accusations that are not acceptable, nor the way in which they are being made. You also do not have access to the detail to confirm the facts in this situation. Also please keep in mind that your personal experience of a breeder may bear no relation to another's experience. It is also unfair to tell people they should have got health clearances before they bought their puppy -- as if this is the buyer's fault! -- or asked other breeders (rather than a vet!) for medical advice (why would anyone go ask other breeders rather than a vet?). Many puppy buyers simply do not realise health certs are adviseable, many breeders do not offer such information and many who ask for health certs are not given relevant health clearances anyway (eg vet heart checks rather than a cardiologist certificate -- there are health tests and then there are health tests...). Would you please read the Getting Started section to better understand what is acceptable on the board.

    but all I can say is that I have never seen any of these health checks in the form of certificates for either the puppies or parents. If this was available, wouldn't it make sense to show prospective puppy buyers certificates of health checks.
    Giorgio, one of the goals of this board is to make puppy buyers more aware of what should be available from breeders and what puppy buyers should themselves ask about. It would seem that you didn't know such clearances were available or to ask for them. Many breeders will gladly supply such information but need to know the buyer wishes to see it. In future I am sure you will know that this is something any puppy buyer would be wise to do. Buyers also need to take an active role in seeking a health focused breeder they like, and looking for proper documentation.
  8. Karlin's Avatar
    I forgot to add that the sad death doesn't sound too likely to have been directly caused by SM -- unless it was a severe related complication but I'd have thought you'd have been seeing problems over a long period running up to this tragedy. A neurological condition could encompass so many things including meningitis. However if your vet was suspicious the dog could well have had early onset (onset at a young age), this tends to be more severe. Maybe there were complications like hydrocephalus or a massive seizure -- it is hard to know especially without a postmortem. If anyone has a dog that seems to have had SM or has SM and has died, Cambridge very much needs such dogs for a postmortem and autopsy -- contact me and I can put people in touch about this programme. I will get further information up on the board very soon. People will get their dog back, cremated -- so it is a way to allow your dog's life to help other cavaliers.

    Also I do not know of a single scanning breeder who has not found some dogs with syrinxes in their lines. The genes now seem so widely dispersed that totally clear dogs are extremely rare (if someone has such a dog, please contact me privately as such a dog would be of interest to researchers and perhaps other breeders. Also please do not neuter it as its genes may be important to breeders). Just be aware that some of the scans done, when reread, or eventually redone, are not as good as they initially seem -- I understand a neurologist panel is currently being set up to review disputed scans to remove this element of uncertainty on grades. Also the younger a dog is scanned, the less reliable the scan as a long term view of the dog -- I do know of dogs that have scanned clear at younger ages, up to 4 -- that become affected later on, so as with cardiac testing, a scan should never be taken as the permanent status for a dog but a snapshot in time. But good scans generally do tend to remain good ).

    I think it is important to remind people that while SM is a terrible tragedy in the breed, many breeders working hard to reduce incidence will nonetheless produce affected dogs and that many breeders would have bred such dogs at a time when the condition was even more poorly understood than it is now, through no deliberate action. The goal must be to reduce incidence, reduce pain, and breed with as much information as possible from health testing and eventually the estimated breeding values. Breeding to reduce MVD incidence shows that even when a condition is widespread and inheritance poorly understood, breeding less affected or unaffected dogs reduces incidence and onset.

    My condolences for having gone thorugh such a traumatic event and I hope this ongoing issue can be resolved in a way that brings some closure.