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I am so pleased to announce........

Thank you for the kind words.

I think Carol and I were able to demonstrate our concern for all dogs in general when we applied.

Carol has had me going up to London to meet MPs and chivied me into answering consultation papers for quite some time now. She is an amazing and very knowledgeable lady.

The Advisory Council was set up in response to Bateson and other reports on dog breeding. The Council will be looking at welfare issues affecting all dogs, registered and unregistered, so we will be considering all breeds ( and crossbreeds ) when we give our comments.

Puppy farms and status dogs have also been flagged up as concerns by the Chairman, Prof. Crispin.
 
I hope you both can work towards making a difference in the quality of life and environment of all breeds (cavaliers inc) A tall order I am sure:)
It would be a substantial achievement to prevent some of the worst breeding practices and raise public awareness of both health issues and appalling conditions of some establishments. Good Luck.
 
There is as I said above, a valid argument for clarifying gross misinformation being spread by some breeders, of course (and the rewriting of history by the usual select few... :rolleyes:). Given the ridiculous statements being made about Carol, claiming she has made incorrect statements about a crowd of noisy breeders arriving at the last Cavalier Club AGM having missed the entire hearts talk and some of the beginning of the meeting when a vote was taken on a health issue that initially passed then was rejected when the Koffee Klatch group finally decided they should attend their own AGM, i thought I might reprint the statement by their own club chairwoman at the time who made just such a point herself. Perhaps the ladies (and one or two men) might have their rusty memories jogged by this statement, which Mrs Jupp pointedly posted to the front page of the club website immediately following the AGM?

Before the AGM last Sunday, Simon Swift, Cardiologist, gave a talk to members to inform us of the present situation, current research and to update us on the new BVA/KC heart testing scheme that involves a number of breeds including cavaliers.

His talk was attended by about 25 members, including the committee, out of a current total UK membership of 1050. At the end of his talk Simon had difficulty in leaving the room for the throng of other members waiting outside for the AGM, chatting and drinking coffee, whiling away the time until his talk was over. So much for breeders’ interest in, and concern for heart problems within the breed.

The AGM then followed, attended by 63 members. The agenda contained a proposal from the committee that the Code of Ethics should include the recommended breeding guidelines for SM. These are not mandatory rules, merely recommendations, and would have been in line with Hearts and Eyes breeding guidelines, which have been in place for some years.

These proposals seemed to me to be innocuous and reasonable. However, the proposal was substantially defeated by the meeting. This was a triumph by the members present over neurologists and geneticists, and of course, over the committee. It would seem that cavalier club members continue to progress, like lemmings, towards mandatory breeding regulations that will surely come, as surely as night follows day. There are many members who are still not prepared to health check their breeding stock, and of those who do, it would appear that many would not hesitate to breed from affected animals. I have tried my utmost to defend and support the breed and the club. This weekend was proof, if proof is needed, that there is no point in deluding myself, or others, that self-regulation is possible.

Mrs Lesley Jupp, Chairman CKCS Club
24th March 2009
Click to expand...

I know that will immediately set the matter straight -- that Carol is absolutely right.(y) I am glad lots of people are reading her excellent website, www.cavaliercampaign.com, as some, breeders included, still seem to have a dreadfully low awareness of the reality of SM and amazingly, after years of a breeding protocol and much research, MVD.
 
I am so pleased to announce .....

Karlin said:
There is as I said above, a valid argument for clarifying gross misinformation being spread by some breeders, of course (and the rewriting of history by the usual select few... :rolleyes:). Given the ridiculous statements being made about Carol, claiming she has made incorrect statements about a crowd of noisy breeders arriving at the last Cavalier Club AGM having missed the entire hearts talk and some of the beginning of the meeting when a vote was taken on a health issue that initially passed then was rejected when the Koffee Klatch group finally decided they should attend their own AGM, i thought I might reprint the statement by their own club chairwoman at the time who made just such a point herself. Perhaps the ladies (and one or two men) might have their rusty memories jogged by this statement, which Mrs Jupp pointedly posted to the front page of the club website immediately following the AGM?



I know that will immediately set the matter straight -- that Carol is absolutely right.(y) I am glad lots of people are reading her excellent website, www.cavaliercampaign.com, as some, breeders included, still seem to have a dreadfully low awareness of the reality of SM and amazingly, after years of a breeding protocol and much research, MVD.
Click to expand...

I AM SO PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE......

Karlin ,

Thanks for your Post which completely Vindicates Carol.

Could I also mention what Mrs L.Jupp said on the CKCS CLUB WEB SITE after that same AGM and can still be seen on the Internet to-day.

"There are many Members who are still not Prepared to Health Check their Breeding Stock,and of those who do, it would Appear that Many would not Hesitate to Breed from Affected Stock"

What a Damming Statement for Cavalier Club Members to have Received.

Bet
 
Thank you all so much for your kind comments. It makes all of the hard work so worthwhile when there are people who appreciate it.

I'm delighted and honoured to be associated with the the Advisory Council. The Council members themselves (of which there are eight) are all highly qualified people, and reading the draft Minutes of their first meeting on December 8 (available on the website), it's clear that the Council has got off to a flying start and really mean business.

I'd like also to say that the Associate Parliamentary Group for Animal Welfare (APGAW) are taking a keen interest in the dog breeding issues and will be assisting and monitoring the work of the Council. APGAW's Chairman, Neil Parish, MP, is keen that APGAW follow up on its report into dog breeding published in 2009.

Other influential organisations are involved in the reform of dog breeding as well - the RSPCA, British Veterinary Association (BVA), British Small Animal Veterinary Association (BSAVA), British Veterinary Association Animal Welfare Association (BVA AWF), Companion Animal Welfare Council (CAWC), Dogs Trust. And the standard Puppy Contract being produced by the RSPCA and BVA AWF hopefully will be accepted as a simple and practical way forward.

I think I should just make the point that Margaret and I are not in any way 'representing' the Cavalier breed on the expert panel. There are many other breeds which are suffering too and the Council must look at the bigger picture before it can focus down on specific breeds.

All of us who have had and love Cavaliers want the breed to survive. The official CMSM MRI screening scheme is an important step forward as will be the corresponding official Heart Testing scheme, and vitally important are EBVs, and the DNA research. I would also like to see a proper scientifically led outcross programme added as well because there is only so much you can do within a closed gene pool. It takes much longer to breed away from the problems if you stay within the current gene pool and its the dogs who suffer. The welfare of the dogs has to come before the notion of breed purity in my opinion. I think I am very much in a minority in saying that though.

Anyway, thank you again and I promise I will do my best for dogs and Cavaliers in particular.

Carol
 
I am so pleased to see that Margaret and Carol have both been appointed to the council, I think it is an excellent selection of people with varying backgrounds and interests, who should be able to provide solid advice from their experience and formulate a way forward.
 
There's a broad spectrum on the panel too. :) I know Carol has take a wide interest in pedigree issues generally, not only cavaliers, though of course cavaliers are the breed closest to her recent personal experience with genetic health issues. Margaret has also been involved with more breeds than cavaliers.

Critically, and I am sure this is what influenced the organisers in making these appointments, you have both been willing to stand up and work for breed health issues in reality -- not just as lip service -- and in doing so have become seasoned campaigners for better pedigree dog health.

There are many long-needed initiatives beginning to happen in the wake of Jemima Harrison's Pedigree Dogs Exposed, all of which offer some hope for healthier lives for pedigree dogs, and better breeding environments and practice.

I'm also proud we on this site have so overwhelmingly supported a better future for cavaliers by creating Rupert's Fund which has had so much international support -- with significant donations coming from the membership here in particular. Already, scans of older dogs enabled by this funding have given new and better insight into the development of this condition and should help to fine tune the genome work, too. :thnx:
 
Congratulations to both of you! Your dedication and devotion both in the public and personal to each owner who needs help and support makes me feel everyone is in good hands.

Thanks for being there personally for me as an owner of a beloved cavalier with SM and being a friend to me and a true friend of the breed

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
Margaret C said:
Puppy farms and status dogs have also been flagged up as concerns by the Chairman, Prof. Crispin.
Click to expand...


I was so pleased to read this, Margaret. The plight of "status" or "designer" dogs is just getting more and more distressing. If you look at the type of crossbreed dogs which are regularly being advertised on the free internet sites it just breaks your heart. And the claims that are made about their health status are just unbelievable.

In fact, do you think your committee could tackle the whole subject of advertising live animals on these free internet sites? Personally I think they are single-handedly responsible for a very great number of the many ills facing dogdom today! :x

wotton12000 said:
I would also like to see a proper scientifically led outcross programme added as well because there is only so much you can do within a closed gene pool. It takes much longer to breed away from the problems if you stay within the current gene pool and its the dogs who suffer. The welfare of the dogs has to come before the notion of breed purity in my opinion. I think I am very much in a minority in saying that though. Carol
Click to expand...

Hear, hear, Carol :xctly: You may be in a minority, but I'm sure it's a growing and increasingly significant one!

I have a 3 year old Blenheim who might just be one of the "old-fashioned" type of Cavaliers (long muzzle, long legs, very energetic) but her temperament is the least Cavalier-like of any I have owned. What she DOES look like, and especially, ACT like, are those charming Kooikerhondjes from The Netherlands, which feature on the front cover and Fido Facts pages of the February 2011 issue of Dogs Today (http://www.dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/). I have always wondered if she didn't have a bit of "Kookyhound" in her somewhere, especially as she was bred in Leicestershire, which I gather is the stronghold of the Dutch breed in the UK.

I gather from the same source, that the Kooikers were down to their last 25 individuals after the Second World War though, and were "rescued from the brink of extinction" by one Baroness Von Ammerstal. Presumably this means a similar restricted gene pool to that experienced by our own Cavaliers? Which all goes to prove that the whole business of outcrossing need even more research than breeding pure pedigrees and should certainly NOT be left in the hands of the type of people who regularly advertise them on Preloved and the like! :(
 
Wagtails said:
I was so pleased to read this, Margaret. The plight of "status" or "designer" dogs is just getting more and more distressing. If you look at the type of crossbreed dogs which are regularly being advertised on the free internet sites it just breaks your heart. And the claims that are made about their health status are just unbelievable.

In fact, do you think your committee could tackle the whole subject of advertising live animals on these free internet sites? Personally I think they are single-handedly responsible for a very great number of the many ills facing dogdom today! :x



Hear, hear, Carol :xctly: You may be in a minority, but I'm sure it's a growing and increasingly significant one!

I have a 3 year old Blenheim who might just be one of the "old-fashioned" type of Cavaliers (long muzzle, long legs, very energetic) but her temperament is the least Cavalier-like of any I have owned. What she DOES look like, and especially, ACT like, are those charming Kooikerhondjes from The Netherlands, which feature on the front cover and Fido Facts pages of the February 2011 issue of Dogs Today (http://www.dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/). I have always wondered if she didn't have a bit of "Kookyhound" in her somewhere, especially as she was bred in Leicestershire, which I gather is the stronghold of the Dutch breed in the UK.

I gather from the same source, that the Kooikers were down to their last 25 individuals after the Second World War though, and were "rescued from the brink of extinction" by one Baroness Von Ammerstal. Presumably this means a similar restricted gene pool to that experienced by our own Cavaliers? Which all goes to prove that the whole business of outcrossing need even more research than breeding pure pedigrees and should certainly NOT be left in the hands of the type of people who regularly advertise them on Preloved and the like! :(
Click to expand...

I really would not advocate using this breed to outcross a cavalier to as they have severe temperament problems!
In fact, having seen the outcome of designer crosses and resulting inherited problems, I am not in favour of going down this path at all. Any scientific (cross) breeding programme will cost considerable funds, it isn't just afew nice well meaning people having a few litters, it is a major committment over many years with all the pups from the litters monitored for health temperament and looks. Or are advocates of this type of programme not bothered that the results won't look or behave like a cavalier, in which case - it won't be a cavalier.
 
Davecav said:
I really would not advocate using this breed to outcross a cavalier to as they have severe temperament problems!
In fact, having seen the outcome of designer crosses and resulting inherited problems, I am not in favour of going down this path at all. Any scientific (cross) breeding programme will cost considerable funds, it isn't just afew nice well meaning people having a few litters, it is a major committment over many years with all the pups from the litters monitored for health temperament and looks. Or are advocates of this type of programme not bothered that the results won't look or behave like a cavalier, in which case - it won't be a cavalier.
Click to expand...

Yes, it would cost a considerable amount of money and would, I imagine, need cooperation between cavalier clubs, Kennel Club, and geneticists.

Presumably the first thing need would be to identify the genes that cause CMSM and MVD and then choose a breed that does not have the same problem genes. It been done, but only with an identified single gene, to produce healthier Dalmations.

Genetic research really is such an important key to solving the health problems in cavaliers.
 
I am not active on the forum at all as I generally just lurk, but had to give a huge congratulations as well!! As a few of you know, I am completely in love with the breed, but haven't added a Cavalier to my home because of the health issues. I sincerely, truly, completely hope that the breed will see vast improvement in regards to health as I would really love to own a Cavalier someday.

Congrats Carol and Margaret! You have an army of support behind you!
Best,
Melissa
 
I am so pleased to announce......

Davecav said:
I really would not advocate using this breed to outcross a cavalier to as they have severe temperament problems!
In fact, having seen the outcome of designer crosses and resulting inherited problems, I am not in favour of going down this path at all. Any scientific (cross) breeding programme will cost considerable funds, it isn't just afew nice well meaning people having a few litters, it is a major committment over many years with all the pups from the litters monitored for health temperament and looks. Or are advocates of this type of programme not bothered that the results won't look or behave like a cavalier, in which case - it won't be a cavalier.
Click to expand...


I AM SO PLEASED TO ANNOUCE.....

Davecav,

I just feel I have got to reply to your Post.

The Cavalier Breed probably won't Survive for many more years because of their SM and MVD Health Problems.

I will give the Facts once more.

For SM.

85 Whelps Researched ,all had CM

60 Australian Breeding Cavaliers MRI Scanned , 50% had SM.

Now more Cavaliers have been found to have further Syrinxes Lower than their C5 Vertribrae.

This is a Very Worrying SM Prospect for our Cavaliers.


For MVD

50% of Cavaliers 5-6 years of Age have a Heart Murmur .

This is no better than it was 18 years ago.

Cardiologists are now saying that there are many Cavalier Carriers of the MVD Gene/Genes around to-day.

Even the Long Lived Cavaliers probably could be Carriers of the MVD Genes/Genes.

The Cavalier Breed is on the Brink of Distinction ,so some Drastic Measures have got to done to try and Save our Cherished Cavaliers.

Either Cross Breeding, ..

Or going to the Puppy Farms , or BYB'S, get some Cavaliers , have them Health Tested for SM and MVD, if Clear let them be used in Cavalier Breeding Programs.

The Cavalier Gene Pool has got to be Widened some-how.

The Show Cavaliers have such a Small Gene Pool ,and is this what could be causing a Health Problem for the Breed.

Much of the MVD DATA has come from Cavaliers taken at CKCS SHOWS.

As I said , if the Cavaliers' Health Problems are not Dealt with now, there likely won't be any Cavaliers left.

Finally ,in the Financial Crisis many Folk are having to-day, I don't think they will be wanting to buy a Cavalier and having to pay a lot of Money for Medication for them.

The Most Important Thing for Cavaliers ,is to save their Suffering and Pain from SM and MVD,that is the Wish of All of Us who Love the Cavalier Breed.

So what-ever Means have to be being used .

Let That Be Done.

Bet
 
Bet
Any recommended action for the future of the breed will come from the experts (genetisists etc)

I stand by what I said in my post above. There is no point in a few well meaning people starting to outcross cavaliers with totally inappropriate breeds in the hope that this will solve the problem because it won't. Especially if a breed like the Kooikerhondje is used (even though it does look very slightly similar to the cavalier) Its temperament is so far removed from that of the cavalier as to render it completey unsuitable.
 
rida said:
Can you tell me where you got that infomation from as I believe thats not true.
Click to expand...

Actually I understand this to be the case for Simon Swift's (UK Club) data -- gathered over many years of doing auscultation at shows.
 
Karlin said:
Actually I understand this to be the case for Simon Swift's (UK Club) data -- gathered over many years of doing auscultation at shows.
Click to expand...

This also has been true in the USA. Most statistics of heart murmurs, during the period beginning in the late 1980s, has been compiled from dogs examined at CKCSC,USA shows.

Rida, what is your understanding that contradicts this information?
 
I am so pleased to announce....

rida said:
Can you tell me where you got that infomation from as I believe thats not true.
Click to expand...

I AM SO PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE .....

rida,

Karlin and Rod have answered your Query.

Do you not believe that the Cavalier Breed is in very Serious Trouble because of the Health Problems it has?

Surely not.

The only Answer will be for all Cavalier Breeders , if our Breed is to be Saved, as I mentioned in my Previous Post, is to accept that the Cavaliers are just about an Extinct Breed,and for Goodness Sake be Big Enough to give all the Help the Researchers are needing for their Research.

Forget their Own Egos, and think for a Change about the Suffering of our Beloved Cavaliers.

At the moment ,till the Genes are found for SM and MVD are found, the only help for Cavaliers is from the EBV Scheme,but some Cavalier Breeders seem to be Determined not to want to Co-operate in the KC/BVA MRI Scanning Scheme with the Obstacles they are putting in the way of the Scheme ,and even as bad is how they are trying to Influence the Cavalier World with their Narrow Minded Views about the Problem of SM.

Bet
 
My understanding of this subject is that information didn't come from the Club heath days but from information that was gathered from Vets.
 
rida said:
My understanding of this subject is that information didn't come from the Club heath days but from information that was gathered from Vets.
Click to expand...

In the UK it is possible for club members to take the Cavalier Club health forms to their vet, get their cavaliers' hearts checked, and then submit the forms to the Cavalier Club heart database.
These forms are only available through the Club. Vets do not hold them.

There are relatively few forms that are sent in that way, the bulk of the heart results come from heart testing sessions set up at shows or special health days.

There is no scheme that allows vets to feed in any cavalier heart testing results to cardiologists. The results that are submitted to the heart database are from owners that are connected with cavalier breed clubs.
 
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