Is this the reason for less cavaliers being shown at ckcs shows?

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Originally Posted by Holly

Wow- this is quite a statement. I show my Cavaliers and really enjoy it-- as do my dogs. They are definitely my pets first and show dogs second, and get ample time chasing squirrels and being dogs, but they also enjoy going to the training classes and having their brains exercised and stimulated as they learn what to do in the show ring. The dog I am showing currently is heart and eye clear. We make a good team in the ring- he is a Dual Champion but more importantly, we have fun in the ring. He barks at me occasionally if he is stacking particularly well and he feels he deserves some bait. ;-)

A good friend of mine loves to paint and does gorgeous artwork-- not to sell, just because she enjoys it. Should this be considered vein and frivolous? I was just laughing with her the other day because I said that I have absolutely zero interest in painting and arts and crafts and she has zero interest in Cavaliers and/ or showing-- dogs in general, really. But, that is what makes the world go 'round. Do you have a hobby?

And, yes-- showing is very expensive and time consuming.

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Your dog can't talk and tell you what they think of being shown. I am pretty sure if your dog took you to a show and started evaluating you on your looks and abilities you might not be so comfortable with it. You can exercise your dogs brain without subjecting them to being judged. And yeah when your hobby is to take advantage of another living being it's not the most appealing to me.

You don't show the dog for its amusement. I just think it's degrading and I am glad less and less people are doing it. Like I said that is just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by goda

Your dog can't talk and tell you what they think of being shown. I am pretty sure if your dog took you to a show and started evaluating you on your looks and abilities you might not be so comfortable with it. You can exercise your dogs brain without subjecting them to being judged. And yeah when your hobby is to take advantage of another living being it's not the most appealing to me.

You don't show the dog for its amusement. I just think it's degrading and I am glad less and less people are doing it. Like I said that is just my opinion.

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Hmmm... nor can a dog tell you a what they think of their life in general, right?? Maybe your dog would enjoy dog shows even though you don't! ;-) We do the best we can for our dogs based on what we observe. I would never show a dog that showed signs of not enjoying training or being in the ring. What about people who enjoy competing in obedience or agility? Or, people who show or compete with their horses? Just as in agility and obedience, there is a good deal of training involved in conformation. I greatly enjoy the classes we take before-hand, and it's an outing for my dog. So-- I go by the fact that win or lose, we both have fun in the ring, his tail is wagging, and it is a bonding experience for both of us. In fact, win or lose, I am always a winner bc my dog comes home with me! :) I am guessing you aren't a fan of the Kentucky Derby, either.

Breed standard is what makes a Cavalier a Cavalier. That is the purpose of shows-- to evaluate for breed standard and breeding stock-- including health. A dog show is not just for people's amusement. I have a dog with SM-- I know how important Health and health testing is. I think you are missing the point that a dog show is supposed to evaluate breed type. Isn't that why you bought a Cavalier? For it's sweet temperament and you found it to be visually appealing?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but differences are what makes the world go 'round.

Something else I think is great about the US shows-Old Club and some AKC- are the heart and eye clinics where exhibitors and pet owners can have board certified cardiologists and ophthalmologists do heart and eye checks at a fraction of the cost of going in to the doctor's office.

To keep this on topic, from what I know, there is a decline in show entries here in the US, as well- mostly due to the bad economy. Shows are costly. I do think a reputable breeder is health-conscious and follows the protocols and shows his/her dogs.

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Originally Posted by goda

Your dog can't talk and tell you what they think of being shown. I am pretty sure if your dog took you to a show and started evaluating you on your looks and abilities you might not be so comfortable with it. You can exercise your dogs brain without subjecting them to being judged. And yeah when your hobby is to take advantage of another living being it's not the most appealing to me.

You don't show the dog for its amusement. I just think it's degrading and I am glad less and less people are doing it. Like I said that is just my opinion.

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I do not show Cavaliers but I have been to shows. I find a couple of problems because at the shows I've been to, I can not say that these Cavaliers were miserable. In fact they seemed extremely happy. The problem is when people read statements about showing Cavaliers sometimes one can miss some of the possitives. One thing like Sins and Holly said, it is important for breeders to evaluate and make decisions based on others. Like I say I'm not a breeder but from reading websites on buying a Cavalier, they say this is extremely important.

I went to a seminar on breed standard and one important thing the judges look at is if they are wagging there tail. I don't know how one can teach that but wagging tails always made me think they were happy. In fact the description of Cavaliers has a big importance of their temperment and general gay temperment.


This is from the two breed clubs in the USA

http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.../standard.html

"

General:

An active, graceful, well-balanced dog, very gay and free in action; fearless and sporting in character, yet at the same time gentle and affectionate.

It is important to remember that a dog can have one or more of the faults listed in the Standard, in moderation, and still be an over-all typical, gay elegant Cavalier. On the other hand, bad temper or meanness are not to be tolerated and shall be considered disqualifying faults. It is the typical gay temperament, combined with true elegance and "royal" appearance, which are of paramount importance in the breed."

and

http://ackcsc.org/Club-Info/breed-standard.html

"GENERAL APPEARANCE
The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is an active, graceful, well-balanced toy spaniel, very gay and free in action; fearless and sporting in character, yet at the same time gentle and affectionate. It is this typical gay temperament, combined with true elegance and royal appearance which are of paramount importance in the breed. Natural appearance with no trimming, sculpting or artificial alteration is essential to breed type.


TEMPERAMENT
Gay, friendly, non-aggressive with no tendency towards nervousness or shyness. Bad temper, shyness and meanness are not to be tolerated and are to be so severely penalized as to effectively remove the specimen from competition."



Also like Holly said, besides Confirmation there are different types of competions. Agility, Rally, Obedience, and my favorite Freestyle. I love the video of the girl dancing with a Cavalier. I think one person got 2nd place at Crufts last year?

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Originally Posted by goda

... You don't show the dog for its amusement. I just think it's degrading and I am glad less and less people are doing it. ...

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I think that conformation showing is very important to the breed. It is one of the most important things that a serious, dedicated cavalier breeder should be doing on a fairly regular basis. Following the breed standard is a primary reason for breeding purebreds. Only by showing at least some of the breeding stock will enable the breeder to know whether or not she is on the right track. Of course, showing before some judges can be a waste of time, since not all judges are as dedicated to the breed standard as they should be, and judging can be subjective.

But it is not just appearing before judges. When a breeder takes her stock to shows, she also can obtain the critiques of other breeders, those experienced ones whom she respects for their objective observations. If a breeder does not get that input from shows (judges and experienced breeders), then she risks kennel blindness.

If I had to choose between two breeders, one who shows in CKCSC.USA conformation shows and/or AKC cavalier specialties, and another breeder who did neither, I would choose the breeder who shows. I would wonder what the point was for the non-show breeder.

I have shown cavaliers in conformation and agility, and I can tell you that most of the ones being showed were having a good time. When our dogs stopped enjoying themselves, we stopped showing them.

Well, if you watch my boy in the show ring it is very obvious he is having a blast...his tail never stops! :)

But back to Bet's comment about loss of buyers...I think also the economy has caused the low numbers.

I think the economy is a big issue for smaller shows as well. We got very lucky that all our local shows, so far, have been major wins. I have heard that it is more difficult to find majors the last couple years. (I am in U.S.)

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Originally Posted by RodRussell

I think that conformation showing is very important to the breed. It is one of the most important things that a serious, dedicated cavalier breeder should be doing on a fairly regular basis. Following the breed standard is a primary reason for breeding purebreds. Only by showing at least some of the breeding stock will enable the breeder to know whether or not she is on the right track. Of course, showing before some judges can be a waste of time, since not all judges are as dedicated to the breed standard as they should be, and judging can be subjective.

But it is not just appearing before judges. When a breeder takes her stock to shows, she also can obtain the critiques of other breeders, those experienced ones whom she respects for their objective observations. If a breeder does not get that input from shows (judges and experienced breeders), then she risks kennel blindness.

If I had to choose between two breeders, one who shows in CKCSC.USA conformation shows and/or AKC cavalier specialties, and another breeder who did neither, I would choose the breeder who shows. I would wonder what the point was for the non-show breeder.

I have shown cavaliers in conformation and agility, and I can tell you that most of the ones being showed were having a good time. When our dogs stopped enjoying themselves, we stopped showing them.

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They are being showered with positive attentions from the owners and rewarded for their behavior of course they will look "happy".

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Originally Posted by goda

They are being showered with positive attentions from the owners and rewarded for their behavior of course they will look "happy".

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Yes.... And what is wrong with that? My dogs always get praised for doing what I ask them to do. Positive reinforcement! Isn't that the basis of good training?

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Originally Posted by Holly

Yes.... And what is wrong with that? My dogs always get praised for doing what I ask them to do. Positive reinforcement! Isn't that the basis of good training?

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If you gave your dog an option of being paraded in a rink and chasing squirrels I think we both know what they would choose.

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Originally Posted by goda

They are being showered with positive attentions from the owners and rewarded for their behavior of course they will look "happy".

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I know my dogs. I know when they are happy. I would not show them if they did not enjoy it. I have stopped showing dogs that obviously did not enjoy it.

Here are a couple of my dogs having the time of their lives in the ring:
http://cavalierhealth.org/images/Cav...eaves-0603.jpg
http://cavalierhealth.org/images/Cav...Org_sprong.jpg