The cavalier breed at a cross-road

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Originally Posted by sins

I feel sorry for the truly health focused breeder caught in the middle of this mess.
On one hand they're being branded as zealots and mavericks for trying to do the right thing and told that they're destroying the breed.Then on the other hand they're told that their efforts to reduce the incidence of SM isn't good enough,even though they breed A to A and have had tangible improvements in their stock.They donate lost puppies to FTR,they take the remains of their much loved dog for post mortem and it's just not good enough???
No wonder breeders are walking away in despair.

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Looking at things quite dispassionately the statement I have highlighted in red is the truth.
Their efforts are not good enough to outweigh the relentless production of puppies from non-scanned underage cavalier parents.
And I'm talking cavalier club members here......not a hope of changing things elsewhere when those that are suppose to ***"Maintain a high standard and act in a responsible manner with due regard to the welfare of the dogs under their control and to abide by the Club's Code of Ethics" sabotage health initiatives and make it increasingly unlikely that the efforts of the health focused breeders are enough to build a SM free nucleus of breeding dogs.

And to be quite honest, although these responsible breeders are doing all they can, while they let the people that are not scanning, or scanning only young dogs and pretending they have followed the protocol, or scanning and using dogs that are SM affected, sit on committees and health liaison councils and speak for them, then they must take some of the blame.

Why do these health focused breeders imagine the BVA/KC scanning scheme is dragging on for so long? Why do they imagine that the Cavalier Health Council oppose the publication of results?

If you scan and use your breeding cavaliers after 2.5 years in accordance with the guidelines, why would you object?

If you remove affected dogs from your breeding programme as you should, why would you object?

If you mate asymptomatic older affected dogs to Grade A dogs, as is allowed in the protocol, why would you object, unless you believe that you should be allowed to hide the information from the pet owner who buys the puppies from this riskier mating?

Non-publication of results allows use of affected dogs to remain hidden and most of these pairings are for the commercial interest of the breeder, not for reasons of genetic diversity.

Some of these matings may be justified if an affected dog from good heart lines or the 'D' Grade cavalier comes from less popular lines. If the reasons are genuine the breeder should be ready to explain and to be honest & accountable to the buyers, who has the right to know the health risks and advantages of such a mating before they buy their family pet.

* One of the objects of the UK Cavalier Club

One of my earliest childhood memories, way back in the 1940s, was of hearing my parents say that my grandfather had cancer. Their tones were hushed and they never talked about it outside our home, because in those days anybody having that diagnosis were assured a slow and painful death from what was an undisputed incurable killer disease.

Slowly, various surgical treatments and drugs were introduced with ever increasing effective results in not only prolonging life, but also, as in my own case, eradicating the tumours altogether. If some return, then the treatment is repeated, which is effective in a great many, but not all, cases.

If it is true that 80 percent of Cavaliers are diseased, would it not be most effective to concentrate our efforts on finding and perhaps funding treatments that work? This is what Cancer Research UK and other agencies are now doing to combat cancers and it does make sense to me.

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Originally Posted by ByFloSin

One of my earliest childhood memories, way back in the 1940s, was of hearing my parents say that my grandfather had cancer. Their tones were hushed and they never talked about it outside our home, because in those days anybody having that diagnosis were assured a slow and painful death from what was an undisputed incurable killer disease.

Slowly, various surgical treatments and drugs were introduced with ever increasing effective results in not only prolonging life, but also, as in my own case, eradicating the tumours altogether. If some return, then the treatment is repeated, which is effective in a great many, but not all, cases.

If it is true that 80 percent of Cavaliers are diseased, would it not be most effective to concentrate our efforts on finding and perhaps funding treatments that work? This is what Cancer Research UK and other agencies are now doing to combat cancers and it does make sense to me.

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Are cancer charities really concentrating on funding treatments and no longer supporting research into the cause of the disease?

There is no doubt effective treatments are essential for our SM dogs but I'm not sure I agree we should be going for the sticking plaster option.

Over the years we have seen many cavaliers with MVD living longer thanks to a plethora of new heart drugs, but there are still too many that die at seven or eight years old.

I would think it was still better for cavaliers not to have a built in disposition to a painful condition in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Margaret C

Are cancer charities really concentrating on funding treatments and no longer supporting research into the cause of the disease?

There is no doubt effective treatments are essential for our SM dogs but I'm not sure I agree we should be going for the sticking plaster option.

Over the years we have seen many cavaliers with MVD living longer thanks to a plethora of new heart drugs, but there are still too many that die at seven or eight years old.

I would think it was still better for cavaliers not to have a built in disposition to a painful condition in the first place.

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Flo,

I reposted a previous thread b/c I read there was research to stop progression. It is sad to read this and to know breeders are giving up. It just hurts pet buyers b/c it makes it harder to find a breeder. Then again, I think this thread was created and mentioned to stop breeding. I give up.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Margaret C

... Over the years we have seen many cavaliers with MVD living longer thanks to a plethora of new heart drugs, but there are still too many that die at seven or eight years old. ...

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I am not so sure that the dogs live longer because of the drugs. They definitely live more comfortably, thanks to drugs. But very few drugs delay the progression of MVD to congestive heart failure, and those that do seem to delay progression do not do so very often. Today's MVD drugs are designed to "manage" the disease, not to halt its progression or to cure it.

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Originally Posted by ByFloSin

... If it is true that 80 percent of Cavaliers are diseased, would it not be most effective to concentrate our efforts on finding and perhaps funding treatments that work? ...

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That always has been one of the aims of research, and it is ongoing. I think the most effective thing to do about MVD is what very, very few CKCS breeders (at least in the US) have done, which is to follow the MVD breeding protocol.

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Originally Posted by RodRussell

That always has been one of the aims of research, and it is ongoing. I think the most effective thing to do about MVD is what very, very few CKCS breeders (at least in the US) have done, which is to follow the MVD breeding protocol.

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Silly me Rod, I thought the topic was SM and trying to eliminate it's causes by selective breeding or outcrossing. :bang:

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Originally Posted by Margaret C

Are cancer charities really concentrating on funding treatments and no longer supporting research into the cause of the disease?

There is no doubt effective treatments are essential for our SM dogs but I'm not sure I agree we should be going for the sticking plaster option.

Over the years we have seen many cavaliers with MVD living longer thanks to a plethora of new heart drugs, but there are still too many that die at seven or eight years old.

I would think it was still better for cavaliers not to have a built in disposition to a painful condition in the first place.

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Yes Margaret it is official. Cancer Research UK made an official announcement recently that they are no longer looking for for causes but for effective treatments a few weeks ago. Perhaps you missed it in the media. I had a newsletter from them saying the same thing. I have been looking for it, but perhaps it went into the recycling once I had read it.:o

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Originally Posted by RodRussell

That always has been one of the aims of research, and it is ongoing. I think the most effective thing to do about MVD is what very, very few CKCS breeders (at least in the US) have done, which is to follow the MVD breeding protocol.

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THE CAVALIER BREED AT A CROSS ROAD

I think that it would be worth while reading the recently Published Veterinary Paper where it was discussed that SM also raises concerns for the Welfare for Our Cavalier Breed.

Is not the Cavalier Breed Decimated already with around 90% having CM.

If Cavaliers have CM,I am quoting again from Dr C Rusbridge ,Neurologist ,

CM is Chacterized between tha Brain being Too Big ,Skull Too Small.


This Blocks up the Opening from the Skull into the Spinal Cord and Alters the Cerebro Fluid.

As a Result ,Fluid filled Cavaties Develope within the Spinal Cord called a Syrinx .

This Condition is called SM

What is the use of Breeding from Cavalier Bitches who have CM.

There surely is no other way than not Breeding from a Cavalier who is suffering from CM

If around 90% of Cavaliers are affected with CM ,then does it not follow on that that the remaing 10 % could be Carriers of the CM Genes.

What more is needed to be being known about the Horrendous CM Problem ,about 90% have CM.

Surely it silly for Cavalier Breeders to be aiming to be Breeding for Cavaliers with only CM.

How is the Cavalier Breed going to be able to survive with this condition?


Bet

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Originally Posted by anniemac

Flo,

I reposted a previous thread b/c I read there was research to stop progression. It is sad to read this and to know breeders are giving up. It just hurts pet buyers b/c it makes it harder to find a breeder. Then again, I think this thread was created and mentioned to stop breeding. I give up.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

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I don't think it is a matter of breeders giving up at all. Many of those who have not scanned before are now doing so, but then there are others waiting for the new protocols to be finalised, which were promised some time ago, but unless I have missed something, they have still not yet been published. There are also those whose younger stock are coming up to breeding age who are scanning too.

Many have given up breeding alltogether I am sorry to say. Some are giving up because the causes of SM and guidelines for testing have been changed so many times, others because they have just had enough of all the blaming and mud slinging aimed in their direction.

Looking at the situation of finding a health testing breeder from where I sit, I have given up advising would be cavalier owners how to find a tested pup because they want the puppy now, they don't want to drive a few miles to see a litter and they want to buy a pup for a bargain price. The last such person I spent a couple of hours on the 'phone to locate a puppy for was one of my neighbours whose son wanted a Cavalier. I did find a litter, told him the pup would cost a very fair £600 and he laughed in my face and said they're in the paper for £350. This idiot is typical of the many I have tried to advise over the past 5 years. If anyone asks now, I tell them to contact either the Midland Club or the K.C., knowing that they will end up looking in the Birmingham Mail.