Pedigree Dogs Exposed "Mark 2" - Should It Be made

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Originally Posted by anniemac

I think I read Jemima comment on her blog that Cavaliers should not be bred. I can't find it.

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You won't find it because she has never said that although others have.

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Originally Posted by anniemac

What did the film educate the public about? How can we educate the public?

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Have you ever watched PDE all the way through? Because of the public outrage at the callous disregard for the welfare of so many breeds of dogs, the Kennel Club has been forced to action and give much more priority to health.

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Originally Posted by Margaret C

You won't find it because she has never said that although others have.




Have you ever watched PDE all the way through? Because of the public outrage at the callous disregard for the welfare of so many breeds of dogs, the Kennel Club has been forced to action and give much more priority to health.

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Maybe I should. I watched parts of how you were treated which I didn't like, I watched the part of the cavalier who died after surgery which is sad. I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. I believe you speaking out did bring attention needed, I just wish things were done differently. I don't know what things would be like had it not been made? Would more people be open? Don't know. I just wish things could not be either one way or the other.

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I will add that I was made aware of SM from the book For the Love of Ollie which had a completely different take. It had a letter from ollie's breeder and a thank you to the canadian club health chair who came to talk in detail. I think that's why I have a different feeling and also because I was not part of it and do not live in the uk.

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Originally Posted by anniemac

When I hear about PDE here, I was told that the cavalier was off medication and they got him/her excited to make it look worse. I know what its like to have a cavalier with SM, but this is gossip. I have no idea if its true but it makes the focus away from the real issue.

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You do not approve of lies but you are repeating it. In fact it is more than gossip, it is lies.

How do you think the owners of that suffering cavalier and the boxer that had the epileptic fit feel at being accused of with holding medication from their pets?

These were owners that filmed the dogs themselves. The cavalier was a video taken by the owners to show their vet and the poor dog was PTS soon after.

Lots of people on this forum take videos to show how their cavaliers suffer. How would they feel if the same suggestion was made about them?

The owners of those dogs were trying to show people just what inherited problems were doing to their dogs.

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Originally Posted by anniemac

Also I don't think just because a cavalier is scanned and has SM it can not be shown. What if they have a great heart line? We need to ask these questions and move to constructive talk together. Just my opinion

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Anne if you are talking about the BIS dog, the issue is not really that he was shown, it was that he had SM at a very young age and the owner was told by the neurologist....... HE SHOULD NEVER BE BRED FROM.............

She still used him at stud and other breeders knowing his diagnosis still used him, without caring about the puppies that would be at great risk of inheriting SM, or the owners just like you that would end up caring for a suffering dog.

He did not come from a great heart line.

I actually doubt if there are any great heart lines in Cavaliers now. The odd golden oldie may make it to 10 years without a murmur but not whole families of parents and siblings.

Oh it kills me to hear that and to watch peoples videos. My heart aches for them. My point is that I wish when I call or bring it up, I do not hear that as a response. It makes me upset but who knows.you have to understand in the usa, very few people are even scanning. I was thinking of a puppy out of the country just so I could have scanned parents. I guess I live in a dream world. If anything, I wish people could know how to contribute to research, find responsible breeders and more of this is what you can do to help.

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I will say this interview with dr. Bell is still on my mind. I wonder if anyone has a transcript. The KC owns the breed standards (I believe) which the akc doesn't. He mentioned breeds that can not give birth naturally is something different. Exageratted traits were discussed and even how judges need to go back to original standard and not reward these traits. I think PDE changed standard of bulldog and peke which he thought helpful. Someone correct me.

I just don't see how cavaliers standard being changed would fit. I would be curious which breeds he thought that started with small gene pool might need outcrossing. I don't want to speak for him. Since he is a geneticist, I would be interested on his point of view of the cavaliers. I also would like a transcript of interview.

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A big problem which the producer of PDE obviously had was to get "the other side" to talk to her instead of turning their backs to her (in some instances, literally and on-camera). An oft-repeated criticism of PDE is that it was one-sided, only painted the negative picture, and was not "balanced". The esteemed Ron Menaker, the AKC board chairman (whom I quote in full at #7 of this thread) wrote: "Any investigation of dogs, breeding or health matters should be balanced and fair." Well that's fine argument, but when only one side will talk to you, whose fault is it that the resulting production does not seem "balanced and fair" to the likes of the always-balanced-and-fair AKC Chairman Ron Menaker?

I can only speak about cavaliers, so I know nothing about the other breeds discussed in PDE, but I can tell you that as far as the criticisms of PDE regarding cavaliers is concerned, roughly 90+% of that criticism is phony. Whether it is the falsehood about the dog being denied its meds, or whatever, the criticisms have been largely a combination of people spreading falsehoods about PDE and other people blindly falling for those falsehoods.

PDE has been the single most important vehicle for bringing cavaliers with MVD and CM/SM to the attention of the masses, and getting major support for the efforts of some CKCS clubs to do something constructive about SM. I know that the UK CKCS club was focused on SM before PDE, but PDE gave a needed boost to that focus, and got the Kennel Club to at least deal in window-dressing-style with the issue of breed standards creating genetic basket-cases.

As I see it, the only problem with PDE2 is that it is not being filmed in the USA. Hopefully, that will be resolved with PDE3.

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Originally Posted by anniemac

I know I'm in the minority here but I will say this.

I think I read Jemima comment on her blog that Cavaliers should not be bred. I can't find it. I know Dr. Hendricks spoke out about it which Rod has commented that the only reason is because of donations. Either way, I would much rather hear information from someone like Dr. Bell who specializes in genetics and I find his articles quite interesting and you can read some on the CKCSC USA website www.ckcsc.org. http://www.tualatinkc.org/pdf/Respon...%20Disease.pdf.

I don't agree with mixed breeds being healthier which is what I read in this article.

"[FONT=Times New Roman]There is a general misconception that mixed-breed dogs are inherently free of genetic disease.This may be true for rare, breed-related disorders; but the common genetic diseases that are seenacross all breeds are seen with the same frequency in mixed-breeds."

I like his mentality of reducing the stigma of genetic diseases which IMO Pedigree Dogs Exposed worked against. What did the film educate the public about? I like what he says to do which is to:

"[FONT=Times New Roman]
How can we educate the public?Make them more informed consumers of dogs and puppiesAble to discern responsible breeders.Knowledgeable about genetic testingRecognize that price and quality should be linked (b/c of testing, medical care, etc)"

I think that does way more good.
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PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED "MARK2"- SHOULD BE MADE



ANNE
I feel I have got to chime in this Thread, I Recently Contacted Dr J Bell .Geneticist ,in America about the CM/ SM Problem in our Cavaliers ,explaining that around 90% of Cavaliers have CM, mentioning that this is Chacterised with Brains being too Big for the Skulls .this is hindering the Flow of the Cerebro Spinal Fluid causing Syrinxes to form then SM.

I asked him because so many Cavaliers now have CM how can this Problem be Tackled, I also mentioned that the Latest Veterinary Paper Published said that Selective Cavalier Breed could be difficult to Eliminate to Genetic Risk Factors for SM because it is a Comlex Disease with Several /Many Genes and that the the Prevelance of the Determinant Genes within the Cavalier Population is likely therefor to be High.

I have been in contact with Dr J. Bell over the past years years ,always had a reply, not this time, I wonder if he has no answer to our Cavaliers' CM Problem.


Bet

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Originally Posted by anniemac

I will add that I was made aware of SM from the book For the Love of Ollie which had a completely different take. It had a letter from ollie's breeder and a thank you to the canadian club health chair who came to talk in detail. I think that's why I have a different feeling and also because I was not part of it and do not live in the uk.

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I have known Sandy Smith, the author, for a long time now. She has four cavaliers all on medication. Perhaps you should write and ask her opinion of PDE?

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Originally Posted by Margaret C

I have known Sandy Smith, the author, for a long time now. She has four cavaliers all on medication. Perhaps you should write and ask her opinion of PDE?

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That's a good idea

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