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Afraid Zack has it

karlin said:
I'd sure take Sally's route first before considering barium scans and all that... We'll all be crossing fingers for you that you can get some results.

I had a cat with a LOT of digestive problems and we (me and vet) just blasted her with about three different medications at once. Sure enough after about three weeks it all stopped. She still can be a bit vomit-prone but at the time she literally leaked diarrhea all the time and it was a nightmare.

Karlin, i would/do feel better, hearing that the situation is not so urgent that Sally's route could not be tried, it's the sense that something has to be done right now that makes me vulnerable to paying out a lot of money on procedures and invasive diagnostic tests.

If your cat was helped by antibiotics, it sounds like the shotgun approach was wise. I've wondered why, and asked but didn't really get an answer as to why the treatment wouldn't be continued more than 7 days, since there were two relapses after 7 days of flagyl. Why not continue for two weeks, for example?

but yesterday i was reading that flagyl toxicity affects the central nervous system and the cerebellum and i cringed. It said animals with CNS issues should not receive flagyl. Zack is on it again now, with the sulfasalazine and Reglan. what a nightmare to my chemical-phobic mind.
 
I was just writing my last reply, then need to rush to work, late late late, and zack stepped on the keyboard and it disappeared. more questions and stuff later, thanks so much! i'm on a roller coaster depending on how zack is acting. he's his most exuberant self today, and poop is looking almost normal. yay.
 
Trevor (now almost 4 years old) spent his first 18 months with on and off colitis. Like you, when I started to see blood in the stool I was totally stressed out. We tried a number of different foods (Canidae, Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato, California Natural Chicken and Rice, I/D) all with repeated colitis episodes followed by feeding of boiled chicken and rice, additional prescriptions of Flagyl. repeated stool samples etc. We eventually found that a Duck and Potato diet (nothing else--no treats/chews/extras etc.) worked great for him. He is now on Natural Balance Duck and Potato kibble with a bit of canned Duck and Potato as well. He also gets the kibble for training and treats. And we haven't had any colitis since 2 days after we started it more than 2.5 years ago.

Duck and Potato might be worth a try when you slowly start to put your pup back on a regular diet.

Good luck!
 
Roberta- good to see popping in! I wondered what had happend with you. I was thinking you had had some pretty difficult issues with Trevor. Hopefully your advice will help.
 
i've been so happy today because Zack has acted normal, i'm so relieved. I'm sort of not thinking about how this could change at any time. It just feels so good to see him enjoying himself, and also, relief from the threat of unrelenting money hemorrhage. if only he could go 30 days without vet treatment for this condition, the insurance would kick in.

So nice today to be able to think about other things, happier things.

about how long does it take to thoroughly cook a chicken breast by boiling?
I take it you don't add butter or margarine to the minute rice?

Zack is still on the I/D, less than a quarter can twice a day. He acts very hungry. I give him some I/D kibble too. Roberta, it seems like it was just diet that caused Trevor's colitis? Thanks for your story. It's really helpful to hear peoples' examples here of similar experiences, and the things that seemed to have helped. did Trevor have vomiting too? i will try duck and potatos, natural balance. Karlin said to try unusual meats.

after reading that fecal tests for Giardia and Coccidia can be false negatives if not done on samples taken on 3 or 4 consecutive days, i was wondering what was the point of the $200 test i had done a few days ago? I mean, what have i learned from it? it sounds like it was kind of useless, a lot of money for nothing. i'd rather pay more and have something that has a clear result.

Anyway, i'm glad it's the weekend, i will get some boneless skinless chicken breasts tomorrow. we have a holistic vet appointment at 3pm.

Right now, his system isn't sensitive, i guess meds are keeping it right, no blood in the stool, the stools are pretty normal looking, he has a strong appetite, very hungry. The Reglan makes the food move through his body quickly. Should i still give just small servings under these circumstances? Don't give him the whole chicken breast at once, right? About how many meals would one chicken breast make?
 
Oh Judy I'm so sorry to read about Zack. What should have been a joyous time for you has been a complete nightmare.

I was concerned when you mentioned "broker". Did this person breed and raise Zack, or did she just sell him on for someone else? DId you see his Mum and litter mates?

Did they seem healthy? I'm just wondering if they were all ill and being treated for something, and that is why she offered to send you medications. I would be wary of getting medications like that, really it's best if the vet has prescrobed something.

I would be only giving tiny amounts of food, probably about 4 times a day. Literally about 3-4 tsps each meal the first day, then increasing if his tummy stays ok.

The chicken bresat should do quite a few meals, you can keep it in the fridge for a couple of days, and just cut off small amounts. Mix it with some boiling water so it's not too cold for him - just warm.

With mine, if they have bad tummies, I give baked potatoes and live {bio} yogurt in small amounts. I know vets don't like giving dairy products but a tsp at a time would help put the "right" bacteria back.

I presume Zack's been wormed?
 
Judy,
My gosh you sure have been throught a lot! And poor little Zack, i really hope he is starting to take a turn for the better. Your story is just so difficult, so much the two of you have already endured. :(
I am wishing and hoping that everything turns out for the best. I don't have any experience to add, just warm thoughts and positive words to send to you. It's all i have to offer, i hope it helps a little. :)
Laura
 
Hi Judy,

You asked if Trevor had had problems with vomiting. He did have occasional vomiting, but colitis was the big problem. The colitis was solved by switching to the duck and potato food. In addition to digestive problems, Trevor has the Chiari malformation (also called COMS) that causes his brain to be squeezed into too small an area. This has caused other symptoms/behaviors. But I do not believe that his digestive problems were directly related to the Chiari malformation.

Hope that Zack continues to feel better and that everything gets sorted out.

Best, Roberta
 
Hi Judy,

You asked if Trevor had had problems with vomiting. He did have occasional vomiting, but colitis was the big problem. The colitis was solved by switching to the duck and potato food. In addition to digestive problems, Trevor has the Chiari malformation (also called COMS) that causes his brain to be squeezed into too small an area. This has caused other symptoms/behaviors. But I do not believe that his digestive problems were directly related to the Chiari malformation.

Hope that Zack continues to feel better and that everything gets sorted out.

Best, Roberta
 
I'm glad Trevor came through the colitis OK and that a simple solution like nutrition did the trick. It sure is good to hear that things like this can go on for a long time and still get better.

my roller coaster ride went down again today. zack got up this morning seeming fine, playful and energetic. I was fixing his canned food and he was jumping around impatiently. Then I got down on the floor with a spoonful of it with one of his pills in it, and he smelled the food and then walked away. He didn't want any food. Loud noises were coming from his abdomin. Gradually he got quieter and quieter, and he was just laying around, and then he vomited, just bile/foam.

The stool is soft but not diarrhea. This is a pattern that's been repeated a few times in the past 2 or 3 weeks.

i took him to a holistic vet today. She said stop giving him the reglan because it can cause diarrhea, keep giving him the flagyl and sulfasalazine til it's gone, and she gave me a prescription of pepcid AC. She also gave me deworming pills. He was dewormed before, but she wanted to make sure the worms hadn't come back. Zack's body is like a pharmacy.

He seemed hungry when we got home. I boiled chicken and made rice and gave him about a quarter to a third cup of rice mixed with maybe about a third to a half cup of chicken. Was that too much? He ate it eagerly. I boiled it for about a half hour. After 15 minutes it was still pink inside. Since eating, he has been really quiet, just laying, and i can tell he is in that condition where i won't be surprised if he vomits. I hope not. It's so nice to see him acting like he feels better and is enjoying life.
I think maybe i gave him too much chicken and rice.

The vet agreed that chicken and rice would be good, but she said i should also mix it with the I/D food he's already on. But i didn't. I just wanted to give him the chicken and rice. I didn't understand why she wanted him to have the I/D, even though i asked. I see the chicken and rice as a kind of fasting. Will he get enough nutrients with just chicken and rice?

The vet said it's also just as good to use boiled ground turkey as an alternative to boiled chicken breast. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

I didn't realize a chicken breast was so big. I had in mind the size of piece you get when you order a breast for dinner at a restaurant, a portion size. But the breast i got was huge. So i have a lot left. I guess it will keep for 3 or 4 days? I wish i was a stay at home mom so i could feed him small portions all day.

The vet said he looked good overall and he gained weight in the past week, he was 9 pounds. Last time he was weighed on Monday, he was 8 pounds 3 oz.

i'm not that worried about the colitis because he still acts happy in spite of that, but i'm more worried about the apparent nausea and vomiting. I don't know if they're related. Surely it all must be caused by some kind of parasite or something. The vet looked at all his records and said he was definitely tested for Coccidia. She said it was unlikely that he has giardia because of all the Flagyl he's had.

I'm wondering what Bruce would use the Neomycin for. It's for bacteria, right?

The vet said that for now he doesn't need any procedures but she seemed to be saying if it goes on more than another couple of weeks, then something more would have to be done.

i sure hope boiled chicken and rice will help him.
 
after his boiled chicken and rice dinner, zack slept for a long very long time.
finally i woke him up because i wanted to go to bed, it was late. when he woke up he seemed to feel really good, he was playing and running around for a long time, and he seemed hungry. i wasnt sure if i should give him more chicken and rice, it was so late, so i didn't. i'll feed him small servings tomorrow. i'm so happy to see him happy.
 
Keep him on small servings as per recommendations by others. Small meals are easier for him to digest.
 
judy said:
I'm wondering what Bruce would use the Neomycin for. It's for bacteria, right?

.

Neomycin is a mild antibiotic, less likely to upset his tummy.

Make sure there is no pink in the chicken breast. The key is small meals, a couple tablespoons at a time and every few hours. Once he is over this, you may want to keep up with the small meals. Don't know how much you feed, but our adults get 1/2 cup per day. If you follow the feeding instructions on the bags, I would say you're probably feeding too much.

Hope this is over soon. I know how nerve-wracking it is to have a sick dog.
 
A half cup a day seems so little. I'm used to my cat, i have just left food in her bowl for her to eat when she wants. She doesn't eat too much, a bowl lasts for days. So i had started out with zack that way too--i'm talking about dry food of course. Until that day he got sick two weeks ago, he was l ike the cat, he'd nibble a little bit now and then, and after i told him no, he didn't eat the cat's food at all, which was next to his, just separated by the water bowl. In two weeks, it was only necessary to correct him a couple of times, otherwise, he just left the cat food alone. I was surprised at this compliance on his part and impressed. But after that night he got sick, when he got his appetite back 24 hours later, he was so ravenous, i didn't feel i could trust that he wouldn't eat the cat's food when his was gone, so i've kept the cat's food upstairs and have a gate that keeps him from going upstairs. Before that night he got sick, his bowl was usually not emptied, but now since then, he cleans his bowl in one or two eatings, so things have changed.

A half a cup divided into two meals seems so little, he acts so hungry--is this to be expected and is it ok to not feed him more even though he is still very hungry when he's done?

About feeding him small amounts in multiple feedings, during the week when i go to the office, i would feed him in the morning and come home 4 or a bit more hours later and feed him again, and then another 4 or 5 hours later when i get home. If it's 2 tablespoons, is that enough for him? Is that often enough?

None of the vets mentoned neomycin. Is it given orally? Can it be given by injection? Must it be gotten from a vet? Bruce, I take it you find it effective when nothing else works? Or do you use it as a first resort, at the outset of diarrhea/coliltis?

Any ideas why none of the 5 vets i've seen have suggested trying it, instead repeating flagyl which is not working? I asked one of my vets, one who keeps repeating flagyl, why they had not suggested trying the sulfasalazine that the other vet i took him to put him on, i asked if there was a problem with the medication that explained her not using it. She said there's no problem with it, it's just that it's "old timey", and they don't even carry it.

i'm really grateful to people here for sharing their experiences and for those who have given caring thoughts and words. It's very helpful.
 
When Rory was a pup, he got 1cup a day split into 2 meals. Now he gets 1/2 cup a day divided into 2 meals + wet food. Each dog is individual and you must feed them so they're not starving, but not fat either.

i'd recommend not free feeding. Cavs are very prone to getting overweight and this can compound their heart problems. (all that extra weight puts additional stress on their hearts and bodies)

I think a puppy should get more food as they are growing and need that extra energy.


Also - wet food is less energy dense than dry food. so you have to feed more if you're giving him ID or boiled chicken and rice. We switched the dogs to a hhome cooked food and Rory lost too much weight because I wasn't feeding him enough. He needed more of the wet food to get the same energy because of all the water weight in the wet food.
 
thanks for the info on rory. i guess you have to play it by ear all the time.
When i made the chicken and rice today, i saw that two tablespoons is more than i thought, I had made about 3 tablespoons so i gave him two and saved the rest. but he still is acting hungry, and a problem with that is that when he's more hungry, he is more likely to try to eat inappropriate things.

At this point, he's very slender. He doesn't seem bony but he's anything but fat. I definitely don't want him to get overweight. i guess you just have to adjust as you go along.

just to make sure i'm doing the chicken and rice correctly, is this right? he only had a small part of that huge chicken breast. I put the rest in a baggie (i need to go out and buy some food storing containers, i have some small ones but none to fit the chicken breast). I made some extra rice so i can just mix some cooked rice and cold chicken in a sauce pan with a little water and warm it up. I am thinking the cold chicken should be good for up to 4 days. After that, i'd cook a new one.

Does this system sound OK?

another problem just came up. I got a call from my 87 year old mother and she's not feeling well, aching in her head, chest and stomach, it sounds like i will have to go over and it's not near where i live, probably will have to take her to emergency hospital and they might keep us sitting there for 6 hours while they work on the people with more urgent emergencies like the last time we did that, a year or two ago. She's alone, and she has some dementia, and i believe when i call her doctor, she'll recommend taking her in to get her checked out. those kind of symptoms can be the heart.

This means leaving Zack in his crate for?????? Not feeding him??

I was so looking forward to a relaxing day today with no vet appointments, nursing Zack along, enjoying him while he feels well, before going back to work tomorrow. :cry:

i might take him with me in the crate and keep him at her house while we're at the hospital and go and feed him during the time we're there waiting to see a doctor if it takes that long, bring his chicken with me, pack it in some ice.

:(
 
Can you instead confine him to an exercise pen or a small rooom like a kitchen? This would be more comfortable than long-term crating. Also you need to feed amounts appropriate for your dog. When mine were pups they like Rory each got about 1 cup of food total divided into three then two meals. Now they get lesss as adults (puppies need more food). Cavs are *always* hungry BTW in my experience -- which is why they get fat so easily!

But half a cup a day is probably too little for a pup. Try 3/4ths or a cup divided into the smaller meals.
 
Neomycine is given orally. We use it as a first try if a problem doesn't go away in a couple days. Having said that, if you or your vet aren't comfortable giving it, don't do it. Kris and I are not vets and we would never want you to do something your vet wouldn't want to do. Don't know if it might have a reaction with other drugs you are now giving.

At this point I would err on the side of slightly underfeeding until he is straightened out. At that point you can give him a little more food.
 
karlin said:
Can you instead confine him to an exercise pen or a small rooom like a kitchen? This would be more comfortable than long-term crating.

Yes, i am wanting to just put gates on the two doors to the kitchen, but i was waiting until he really got the idea about going outside to go to the bathroom, i was afraid that if i leave him free in the kitchen before he learns and commits to going outside, it will confuse him about that subject and he will think the kitchen is an ok place to use for elimination.

He is progressing well in housetraining but he's not there yet. He does ask to go outside, he never once has gone inside the crate, but he also thinks going on the wee wee pads inside is ok, though that is the exception, it's been a few days now since he's gone on a wee wee pad, and that was when it was raining. but then sporadically he will just start peeing right in front of me on the rug, as if he has no inhibition. I'd say that happens once a week or less though.

But i am unhappy with him being in the crate, it just strikes me as too confining, and i am eager to set him up in the whole kitchen. i may be forced by circumstances to do it before he learns that in is in and out is out.

i called my mom back, i had told her to take tylenol because she said her head was aching, and i called her about 45 miinutes later and she said she felt better, pain had gone away, she was watching TV, i've called her a couple more times, she sounds ok. so i'm still home, zack sleeping in my lap, i gave him that other heaping tablespoon of chicken and rice. looking forward to giving him a little more in a couple of hours.
 
Bruce H said:
Neomycine is given orally. We use it as a first try if a problem doesn't go away in a couple days. Having said that, if you or your vet aren't comfortable giving it, don't do it. Kris and I are not vets and we would never want you to do something your vet wouldn't want to do. Don't know if it might have a reaction with other drugs you are now giving.

If what he's getting isn't working, maybe neomycin kills something those other meds don't. i don't want to give him more drugs on top of what he's taking now, but i want to ask the vet about it. If it works for you and you use it rather than flagyl, it's good to know about. Your experience is important information. i understand you're not advising to do something a vet is opposed to though. thanks a lot for sharing what works for you!
 
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