Afraid Zack has it

[judy]

thanks guys for the replies, i want to respond and ask some questions later, i am very late for my night job now,( it's just one night a week). i had to leave my day job early to get zack to the vet by 3pm and am just stuffing some food in my face before leaving for my night job which i sure wish was over.

[Sally]

Yikes! Poor Zack. Pixie's troubles started with coccidiosis too. The vet gave us something for it, I can't remember what though. She got a little better, but the vet diagnosed her with mild colitis. It seemed all the medicines made things worse, so the vet and I decided on a more natural course.

No food for a day, then boiled chicken and white rice for a few days. Then gradually trying out foods for 1 that would agree with her. It was a tough time... the gradual switching over of foods (over 5 days each time) then a few days (if that) on just the new food...then back to totally runny poos. Followed by a day of no food, then back to chicken and rice for a few days...then gradually introducing another new food. We ended up with Eukanuba Natural Lamb and Rice puppy formula. Maybe not the best food, but she tolerated it fairly well until we switched to an adult food, Wellness 5 in 1 chicken, and eventually a 50/50 mix of Wellness and Evo.

Has your vet recommended a 1 day fast, then boiled chicken and white rice?

I'll continue to keep good thoughts that this can all be figured out soon.

Hugs,

[Karlin]

I'd sure take Sally's route first before considering barium scans and all that... We'll all be crossing fingers for you that you can get some results.

I had a cat with a LOT of digestive problems and we (me and vet) just blasted her with about three different medications at once. Sure enough after about three weeks it all stopped. She still can be a bit vomit-prone but at the time she literally leaked diarrhea all the time and it was a nightmare.

[Bruce H]

Oh my gosh, what an awful ordeal to be going through, Zack! Here's my (and my wife Kris' ) take on this. I notice that some of what I say will be repeating what others have said.

If this were one of our dogs:

I really don't think I'd be doing exploratory surgery just yet; maybe an x-ray or ultrasound are more in order.

Next, I would hate to see him crated and sleeping in his own mess. I would tend to put crate training on hold for a bit and put an open crate in an enclosed space like an x-pen so when he has an accident he doesn't have to sleep in it. Who knows, if he sleeps in it then licks himself, he may be re-infecting himself.

Has he been tested for parvo? Has he been vaccinated for parvo? Was he checked for mites? How much were you feeding him? 1/2 cup per day should be plenty.

What we would do is put him on neomycin for 10 days. Then feed him boiled chicken bereast (NO fat) and well cooked white rice. Give him 2 tablespoons every few hours for 2 days, then 3 tablespoons every few hours for 2 days and so on. See how he does. Then start trying other foods in small amounts.

As for the contract part of it, Kris and I know of no such AKC requirements for good health. Withholding the papers is, we believe, something the breeder has dreamed up. I just don't understand that part of it. Has the litter been registered? If you have the pedigree, you should be able to call AKC and find out if the puppy can be registered.

When it comes to the guarantee, things get a little tougher. To start with, I would see if your state has a puppy lemon law and see what it says; it may over-ride the contract language. Like Karlin said it's common for a contract to require that you give the puppy up to get a refund or a replacement; I don't happen to agree with that, but that's what a lot of breeders do. I have always hated courts and consider them to be a last resort, but maybe it's time to start thinking about small claims court if your breeder isn't willing to help with at least some of the costs.

Sorry for rambling so much, but it's getting late (for me at least). I wanted to respond as much as I could before going to bed. If I think of anything more tomorrow, I'll respond again. Give Zack a hug for me and tell him I hope he gets better.

[judy]

Karlin
I'm glad to hear there are other possible causes of Zack's itching/shrieking symptoms. I've never seen a dog shriek like that from itching.

Also has the vet checked for rabbit mites as a lot of US vets don;t seem familiar with these but they make a dog terribly itchy and can be very common on puppies

One of the vets i took him to, the holistic one, checked for mites. I don 't know if that includes rabbit mites. The regular vet i'm now taking him to has a speciality in skin issues. I asked her about the scratching and she said first the diarrhea thing should be dealt with before focusing on the itching. Fine with me. He's still in the 30 day waiting period before his insurance will cover illnesses so i can't have anythnig treated if i want it to be covered. I think my 30 days are over tomorrow, but it will be another 30 days until he'll qualify for the upgrade--a couple of days ago, i upgraded his insurance from $3000 per incident to $6000.

thanks for telling me about rabbit mites. I have an appointment to see the holistic vet again on Saturday and am going to ask about that. She also specializes in rabbits.

about the boiled chicken and white rice, i realize this may sound like a dumb question, but is that something i cook for him, or can i buy it already cooked some place? I'm not very experienced at preparing food, i'm embarrassed to say. Would i buy raw chicken and boil it for a period of time, and cook the rice in another pan and mix them together in a dog bowl? The I/D dog food the vet put him on has lots of pieces of white rice in it. and several other ingredients.

What's the reason for feeding kibble that has unusual protein sources? avoiding hypersensitivity?

Your point about buying from a good breeder is well taken. I don't know yet how supportive the broker i got Zack from will be. i don't even know what to ask for. but next time i get a puppy, i have a clear idea about what i want in a breeder and relationship. If i had sold a dog that was sick from day one, i would make some kind of offer to the buyer to make it right, even though it wouldn't be my fault that the dog got sick, . But for me, i would think that if someone got a puppy, it should be healthy. I haven't asked the woman i got Zack from for anything so far. She has offered to send medications, but it wouldn't surprise me if she does the right thing, whatever that is.

[Claire]

My heart aches for this poor little guy, such a shitty start - we all have our a fingers and paws crossed that he gets better..... Woody had terrible problems the first day we get him - is there a charity vets or anything around your area that could help????

[Bruce H]

Karlin

about the boiled chicken and white rice, i realize this may sound like a dumb question, but is that something i cook for him, or can i buy it already cooked some place? I'm not very experienced at preparing food, i'm embarrassed to say. Would i buy raw chicken and boil it for a period of time, and cook the rice in another pan and mix them together in a dog bowl? The I/D dog food the vet put him on has lots of pieces of white rice in it. and several other ingredients.

.

Yes, you cook it for him. Just buy regular uncooked chicken breast from the grocery store, remove all the skin and fat, and just boil it in water until its comepletely cooked. The rice should be cooked until its very soft.

BTW, there are no dumb questions. Keep asking.

[Sally]

Like Bruce said, remove the skin and fat....and no bones! We bought a big package of boneless, skinless breasts and froze each one individually. Put one in boiling water and let it cook until there's no pink left on the inside. It's ok to overcook it if you're boiling it. You can use plain Minute Rice (it's easy) just use more water than the box says and let it sit 10 minutes instead of 5.

And several little meals. The idea is to get the digestive system working, without overloading it.

Another thing the vet mentioned to us was for us to stay calm. For me, that was difficult. But I made sure I always used a low pitched, calm voice...and handled her slowly and gently. Even when my first instinct was to shirek "Oh, no, not again!" and rush around cleaning or racing her outside.

Keeping good thoughts.

[judy]

Judy,
I don't know if this will help or not but has your vet checked for Coccidiosis?

I think so. The first day i took him to the vet, two days after i got him home, i brought a stool sample. seeing blood in it was alarming. Thanks for the links. I read that this is a routine test, so i'm guessing it was done, but i'll call and ask, or check the records i have, to be sure. The problem is, and true of Giardia and probably other things too, that the result of a test may be a false negative, and several tests need to be done on several samples, according to these sources, but neither vet i saw suggested doing that, yet concluded that the results were definitive. So even if they did test for it, i don't know if it can be ruled out. I'm not sure what's meant by watery diarrhea. His is in the form of a puddle, but it's thick so i don't think of it as watery. And the amount of blood yesterday was a lot, not slight. When i went to the new vet the first time last Monday, i asked about treating with Albon because the broker had suggested it and said she might send me some. The vet gave an explanation about why it might not make sense to use it, but my brain is on overload and i don't remember what she said, but i think it related to a lack of evidence of infection with the susceptable organism.

thanks for the links! i'm so glad your kids got better. I'll pursue checking into this further, a lot of the facts fit the picture. The article says treatment is with a sulfadimethoxine or sulfadiazine. Right now he's taking something called sulfasalazine. I wonder it that's the same kind of thing.

[judy]

Has your vet recommended a 1 day fast, then boiled chicken and white rice?

i'm glad to hear your efforts paid off and pixie is doing ok. I need to find a vet who thinks like yours because i'm suspicious of the medications, i mean, just the effect of so many on such a little guy, along with the other stresses, and vets differ in how they see the negative effects of medications. I like my vet, she is thoughtful and not dogmatic. But she's not holistic.

I asked her yesterday if it can help to fast a dog, to let its system rest and clean out, and she said that in Zack's case, she felt he was already on the thin side. I think he's normal for a cavalier, just slender, but i don't know for sure. Another vet said he was fine but the holistic one i saw said he was too thin, yet his weight is normal. It didn't seem like most of them were very familiar with cavaliers. I wish i could find a vet who is.

She didnt' recommend boiled chicken and rice, she recommended the I/D food and seemed confident in it, that if it didn't help, then diet was not the answer. And barium would come next.