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Thread: update on Zack

  1. #11
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    Chicken and rice almost certainly has helped his stomach; it is nice and bland and easily digestible plus dogs tend to love it. Also the small frequent meals are easier to digest that a large meal all at once. I am glad he sounds like he's doing better. To me it sounds like maybe you are getting some sort of allergic rection to foods as well.

    Give him some time on the chicken/rice and maybe now start to work towards fewer, slightly larger meals and see how he does. Then I'd look into a good quality kibble with an alternative protein source, no grains except rice, etc. Laura Lang keeps the Whole Dog Journal list here:

    http://roycroftcavaliers.com/manualfeeding.htm

    You can also give the chicken/rice meals as an alternative. You can try addding a teaspoon or tablespoon of live yogurt as well weekly or so, but if this bothers him discontinue as perhaps he has sensitivity to dairy products (dogs sometimes do).
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  2. #12
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    Yikes! What a horrible ordeal with the wormer!

    I'm glad to hear Zack is doing a bit better with the chicken and rice. It was a big help for us with Pixie and her extremely sensitive tummy. What Karlin recommended is exactly what we did, slowly increased the amounts we were giving her. After that seemed to work, we started adding a few pieces of kibble, giving that a few days, and if it all stayed ok, adding a few more.

    We also started giving her a probiotic pill every day. We use Gentle Digest from Ark Naturals, but there are several brands that others use.

    Another thing I thought of is to wait a bit (like 1/2 hour) after the pup eats before they play hard. Pixie only had a short spell of vomitting, but during that time, it seemed to help.

    Pixie's system still does not tolerate drugs well, we know every month when she gets her heartworm meds she'll have a day of soft poops, but we now know to expect it.

    I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that things continue to improve.
    ....Sally
    Mom to Pixie - DOB 5/27/04
    And rescue kitties Max and Sophie

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlin
    Sorry to hear about all that. You should report back to your vet.
    Here's what one of the irish rescues recommends as a very mild and effective wormer.
    So it's Panecure? That's interesting. The day i got Zack, he had the diarrhea, and bloody diarrhea the next day, and on that day i called the broker i bought him from and she said she would mail me something to give him for it. She sent three medications, one was for Giardia, one was for Coccidia and one was Panecure for worms. Before her mail arrived, earlier that day, i took him to the vet and the vet put him on Flagyl, so i never used the meds she sent. But it feels kind of weird to consider the possibility that if i had done what she suggested, he might have gotten better in three days like she said, instead of being sick for over a month with over $1000 in medical bills. She sounded so confident in what she was recommending. But i felt better going by what a vet said, of course.
    One thing that's hard is to never really know what it is or was.

  4. #14
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    thanks for the feedback on chicken and rice, that supports my instinct, to give him graduallly more and to add a little kibble. i was looking at the kibble list on the article. trying tofind one with no grain except rice. Is it ok for it to have other ingredients? I have (here at home) Canadae, and it's mostly chicken and rice but has a bunch of other stuff too, liver flavor, egg, and many more. Is this OK? On the list, what stood out was Natura's California Natural Chicken and Rice kibble, but i don't see a full ingredients list (i am really really rushing, late for work), it says good for allergy prone dogs. But this is not an alternative meat like duck or lamb. But chicken is good, right? If i can find both today, i'll get both.

    Today will be the 4th day in a row Zack is not sick, if he continues to be like he is now, very hungry, energetic. I continue to be cautious in assuming that nightmare is over because the day after the emergency room, the vet gave him shots of pepcid and chlorpromazine and he was OK for 3 and a half days, then suddenly it was back, every other day after that.
    But i am increasingly hopeful. The stool was better this morning, no diarrhea at all for a few days, but very small and very gross looking, but the one this morning looked more normal, still small. I am concerned about his eyes, tear stains on his face he didn't have before. This was most likely caused by one of his antibiotics which has a side effect related to tear production. Here's what it says on the website of my first vet:

    (sulfasalazine, brand name azulfidine)
    Inability to produce adequate tears
    Sulfa drugs of any kind are capable of disrupting tear function. Classically, this occurs after long term therapy (ie weeks to months) of use but occasionally certain individuals suffer from dry eyes after only one dose of sulfa. In most cases, tear function resumes normally after the drug is discontinued but occasionally the effect is long term or permanent despite withdrawal of the drug. This is the most common side effect seen.[/quote]

  5. #15
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    Hi Judy,

    When you gradually switch to kibble, why don't you try the Natural Balance Duck and Potato? I know of quite a few cavaliers with food sensitivities who have done really well on it. BTW, Trevor did not do well with several of the chicken and rice kibbles or Canidae....

    Best, Roberta
    Roberta and Trevor (5 year old Blenheim)

  6. #16
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    [quote="judy"]thanks for the feedback on chicken and rice, that supports my instinct, to give him graduallly more and to add a little kibble. i was looking at the kibble list on the article. trying tofind one with no grain except rice. Is it ok for it to have other ingredients? I have (here at home) Canadae, and it's mostly chicken and rice but has a bunch of other stuff too, liver flavor, egg, and many more. Is this OK? On the list, what stood out was Natura's California Natural Chicken and Rice kibble, but i don't see a full ingredients list (i am really really rushing, late for work), it says good for allergy prone dogs. But this is not an alternative meat like duck or lamb. But chicken is good, right? If i can find both today, i'll get both.

    Today will be the 4th day in a row Zack is not sick, if he continues to be like he is now, very hungry, energetic. I continue to be cautious in assuming that nightmare is over because the day after the emergency room, the vet gave him shots of pepcid and chlorpromazine and he was OK for 3 and a half days, then suddenly it was back, every other day after that.
    But i am increasingly hopeful. The stool was better this morning, no diarrhea at all for a few days, but very small and very gross looking, but the one this morning looked more normal, still small. I am concerned about his eyes, tear stains on his face he didn't have before. This was most likely caused by one of his antibiotics which has a side effect related to tear production. Here's what it says on the website of my first vet:

    (sulfasalazine, brand name azulfidine)
    Inability to produce adequate tears
    Sulfa drugs of any kind are capable of disrupting tear function. Classically, this occurs after long term therapy (ie weeks to months) of use but occasionally certain individuals suffer from dry eyes after only one dose of sulfa. In most cases, tear function resumes normally after the drug is discontinued but occasionally the effect is long term or permanent despite withdrawal of the drug. This is the most common side effect seen.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta
    Hi Judy,

    When you gradually switch to kibble, why don't you try the Natural Balance Duck and Potato? I know of quite a few cavaliers with food sensitivities who have done really well on it. BTW, Trevor did not do well with several of the chicken and rice kibbles or Canidae....

    Best, Roberta
    Hi Roberta. Today is the 5th day that Zack is showing no signs of the vomiting/not eating symptoms he had for two weeks. As far as vomiting or losing his appetite goes, he's showing no signs of sensitivity to larger meals and kibble. I've been giving him digestive enzymes and probiotics in the past week too, the enzymes are from the pet store, i think the brand is NaturVet. The probiotics are from the human health food store, they have to be refridgerated. They're for small children.

    As for the diarrhea, i dont' know. He hasn't had any diarrhea in almost a week and a half, but i woulnd't call his stool normal or healthy. Its very small and the texture is sticky and soft. It's not like regular dog doo. He started taking the antibiotic/anti-diarrheal Tylan on tuesday, which is also the day he had the Drontal Plus for worms. So i guess either one or both may have helped him with the vomiting thing, killing something that was causing it. the stool looks a bit more normal each day, no more mucous for the past couple of days.

    the kibble i've been giving him for two days is the Natura california natural chicken and rice. I also bought, at the same time, Wellness Duck Formula which is duck and rice. i didn't know if potato was OK. but i will get some NB Duck and Potato--that is a good recommendation if dogs are known to be doing well on it.

    How will i know if Zack has a problem with the chicken/rice kibble, in other words, he's ok on it now for two days. If he's still OK on it in a week, does that mean he doesn't have a problem with it, or does it take longer in many cases for the problem to show?

    Zack continues to NOT be scratching incessantly for the past week. He had scratched a lot every day since i first brought him home on january 28, until a week ago and then it suddenly stopped.

  8. #18
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    Hi Judy,

    I was away this weekend so sorry for the delay in responding. Glad that Zack is doing better. While he is on medications such as Tylan it will be hard to determine if a certain food really agrees with him. When he stops the medication, then you should know pretty quickly whether there is a food sensitivity. My vet also had told me that new food sensitivities can occur over time, but new sensitivities shouldn't occur immediately.

    I think you had mentioned giving Zack bully sticks? I would discontinue those...a lot of dogs have reactions to things like bully sticks, liver treats, rawhide etc. You might look into getting him a Nylabone for vigorous chewers---Trevor loves chewing his! There are also some canvas toys made by "Fat Cat" that are great for chewers--they have a "crinkle" sound that a lot of dogs like. BTW, I've seen them in the past for a really good price at Target.

    Best, Roberta
    Roberta and Trevor (5 year old Blenheim)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta
    Hi Judy,

    I was away this weekend so sorry for the delay in responding. Glad that Zack is doing better. While he is on medications such as Tylan it will be hard to determine if a certain food really agrees with him.....

    I think you had mentioned giving Zack bully sticks? I would discontinue those...a lot of dogs have reactions to things like bully sticks, liver treats, rawhide etc. You might look into getting him a Nylabone for vigorous chewers---Trevor loves chewing his! There are also some canvas toys made by "Fat Cat" that are great for chewers--they have a "crinkle" sound that a lot of dogs like. BTW, I've seen them in the past for a really good price at Target.

    Best, Roberta
    Thanks Roberta
    I got him a nylabone today. He sure loves those bully stix, but he did get into the nylabone. There were two kinds, original and chicken, so i got both. I gave him the original one and he got into it. Thanks for the tip about Target for the Fat Cat things. It wouldn't surprise me if his colitis was triggered initially by some kind of treat i got him when we were driving home from where i got him. Except that he had diarrhea immediately when i got him home. But the lady i got him from had given the dogs bully sticks, that's where i got the idea. He's not a very strong chewer and for the first few weeks i had him, he didn't seem to get much off the bully stick, they didn't get smaller or show much signs of wear. But after having his food cut down, he got extremely hungry and then he started actually getting some material off the bully sticks.

    I got him the Natural Balance Duck and Potato today. I wanted to ask, were you/others talking about the dry food or the canned food, or both?
    I got both.

  10. #20
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    Hi Judy,

    You can feed both types of Natural Balance Duck and Potato. Gradually add the kibble to the cooked chicken and rice you are currently feeding...maybe start with 10 pieces of kibble per meal and then gradually increase it every couple of days as you decrease the chicken and rice. Trevor gets about one tablespoon of canned food with his kibble at each meal a day. But he is an adult and Zack is a pup so that amounts will be different. You might want to start with just a 1/2 teaspoon of canned food at each meal and gradually increase it over time if he tolerates it well. I just posted some more info on the chicken and rice thread.

    Best, Roberta
    Roberta and Trevor (5 year old Blenheim)

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