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Thread: PUPPIA HARNESS V'S COLLARS

  1. #1
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    Default PUPPIA HARNESS V'S COLLARS

    Hello All,
    My husband was talking to a friend of his who has a german sheppard rescue centre in scotland. She told him that we shouldn't be using a harness on holly as she is too young and it was distroy her shoulders
    A staff members in Blanchardstown pet store also told him that a collar would be the better. Totally confussed. Has anyone else been told not to use a harness on a pup????
    Yvonne
    Yvonne
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    This simply isn't true but is one of those stories that goes around dog circles. Vets very often recommend a harness for exactly the opposite reason -- it focuses the straining across the safe chest area rather than letting a pup potentially cause tracheal damage by pulling aganst a collar (my vets said this is particularly true of small breeds. A collapsed trachea becomes a life-risk for the dog's entire life). I don't know why these 'shoulder' arguments circulate but I notice this often comes from people who think a harness is an 'amateur' way of training and walking a dog as you can't do that snap and jerk leash correction method. Also large dog people often say this. I have yet to meet a single orthopedist or vet who has seen a dog whose shoulders were damagaed by wearing a harness.

    Personally, I've only ever had people involved in breeding and showing dogs like dobermanns give me this harness line BTW. Vets and positive-approach trainers typically recommend harnesses and see them as an equal alternative to a collar for large breeds or any breed. Tara and Lisa (pro dog trainers on this board, who run dogtrainingireland.ie ) actually use harnesses a LOT for large breeds that are hard for their owners to control. Dogs that pull hard against a collare can do a lot more damage to themselves than a dog pulling against a harness.

    BTW how many have seen dogs regularly on walks nearly throttling themselves to the point of gasping when they pull against their collars? Especially large breeds?
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Hi Yvonne,

    I totally agrtee with Karlin. The statement of your husbands friend is not true.
    Young Cavaliers can benefit greatly from a harness as many will pull to try and get away from a collar. Damage to shoulders - no way.

    kind regards,
    Katherine

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    One thing that occurs to me too, is that staffie and other bull breed people (breeders, show people, pet owners) almost always walk their dogs on harnesses -- indeed there's a harness known specifically as a staffie or bullie harness! Few dogs are as powerfully built and can pull as hard as a bull breed -- making them far more capable of potential shoulder damage, if this were true -- so surely, staff breeders and show people would never use harnesses if they knew of any damage caused by harnesses?

    I've used nothing but a harness on Jaspar since he was 8 weeks old and not only does he have no joint problems; he's extremely lithe and active and has turned out to be very good at agility!
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  5. #5
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    Hi Yvonne,

    We encourage owners to use a harness over a collar for lead work and when walking their dogs regardless of breed but because of the SM issue and physical make up of cavaliers we do like to see cavaliers with harnesses rather than collars. That way they have no tension around the back of the neck.

    If you want to pop down to us anytime classes are running we can fit your little one properly with a nice red, blue or black harness with or without cute paw prints! They cost 12.50 - 15.00.

    For directions (about 15 mins from Blanchardstown) and class times go to www.dogtrainingireland.ie

    Hope that helps.
    Tara Choules (MAPDT 00852, CAP 1&2, HNC CBT)
    Zak, Beau and Boomer (Cavaliers dressed as Sausage dogs and Schnauzers)
    www.DogTrainingIreland.ie
    Online Store www.dogtrainingireland.ie/shop

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    Just found out today that the Kennel Club have changed the rules for the Good Citizen tests and you can no longer use harnesses {or haltis}, UNLESS there is a medical condition present - whilst undertaking the test.

    I think this is really bad, my dog trainer isn't too pleased either. Many small dogs - and Cavaliers in particular - are better with harneses.

    I am going to write to the Kennel Club.



    I too have heard from "show" people that you shouldn't use harneses, as it causes incorrect development of the shoulder muscles. If the dog is trained not to pull, as they should be anyway, and many don't pull when wearing a harness as it discourages that. And at the end of the day, the MOST important thing is our Cavaliers' health, so I hope for the day when they will ALL be in harnesses.
    Nicki and the Cavalier Clan Our photos www.scotlandimagery.com
    Supporting www.rupertsfund.com and www.cavaliermatters.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicki
    Just found out today that the Kennel Club have changed the rules for the Good Citizen tests and you can no longer use harnesses {or haltis}, UNLESS there is a medical condition present - whilst undertaking the test.

    I think this is really bad, my dog trainer isn't too pleased either. Many small dogs - and Cavaliers in particular - are better with harneses.

    I am going to write to the Kennel Club.

    I too have heard from "show" people that you shouldn't use harneses, as it causes incorrect development of the shoulder muscles. If the dog is trained not to pull, as they should be anyway, and many don't pull when wearing a harness as it discourages that. And at the end of the day, the MOST important thing is our Cavaliers' health, so I hope for the day when they will ALL be in harnesses.
    They should be informed that there are many kinds of harnesses that have an "anti-pull" design--the one i have clips in the front.

    I'm naive about Kennel Club matters--what is the Good Citizen test?

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    I'm naive about Kennel Club matters--what is the Good Citizen test?
    The Canine Good Citizen Test is a basic obedience qualification available to any dog through AKC. It is a ten-part test that a dog has to pass. It includes basics like walking on a loose lead, meeting strangers, sit, stay, recall, and owner/dog seperation. An evaluator administers the test, and if you pass, you send your pass form and five bucks to AKC and they send you a certificate.

    Some insurance companies and hotels give discounts to CGC dogs, and some therapy dog programs use the CGC certification as part of their programs.

    Cedar took and passed the test, and she used her harness. Before the exam, I approached the evaluator to ask permission. She had already heard that the cavalier breed has issues with SM, and although Cedar does not have any signs, she said that she would allow her to use the harness. I have the official certificate, so unless someone wants to take upon them to revoke her 5 dollar piece of paper, she's a CGC.

    I am not sure why harnesses are included in the restrictions for the test. The overall point of the CGC test is to demonstrate good dog behavior in everyday situations. I understand the restrictions on using gentle leaders and pong collars, but the harness does not effect the dog's movements or behaviors. It's less impactful than a training collar, but they are still allowed, I think. A dog on a harness has to pay attention to the human's body and voice even more so than a dog on a collar, IMHO.

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    thanks for the explanation. I totally agree with your logic. If a dog can behave like a good citizen on a harness, that seems more impressive than with a collar. If they'll take a medical exception, maybe a vet would certify the exception just based on the high likelihood of SM tedencies with the risk of aggravation by collars. However, if a dog is well trained, wouldn't they pass the test on a collar without stressing their neck?

  10. #10
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    However, if a dog is well trained, wouldn't they pass the test on a collar without stressing their neck?
    Ideally, yes. But if I dog isnt trained to walk on a leash attached to a collar, it may be distracted or even distressed by the unusual feel of it, making concentrating on commands difficult. If you use a harness but take the test using a collar, it would be a good idea to train using a collar, at least for the test. So if you train using the collar, you end up putting stress on the neck again. So really, if you train using a harness, you'd probably do better off lead completely than you would with a collar. (I dont think that's allowed for the CGC test, either, though i'm not sure.)

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