Kayla is sick!!!

[Karlin]

That's good that it isn't pyo, but not good that it is endo.

I know endo well as I have it!

This is a potentially very painful condition where the uterine tissue begins to grow all around the internal organs -- typically it attaches to the stomach, diaphragm, bladder, bowel, intestines... it can even penetrate thru the diaphragm and enter the lungs where it can cause a collapsed lung (my father, a respiratory specialist, was actually the first person to describe and name the lung aspect of this very strange condition in the 1970s).

Every time Kayla goes into a heat the uterine tissue will behave just like the uterine lining and swell in preparation for the possibility of puppies, which can be very painful in itself and is almost certainly why she has been off colour. Then, when the lining is shed all the tissue within the abdomen ALSO bleeds which causes cramping and discomfort at best and more serious problems requiring surgery, at worst.

In humans the effects are most noticeable during menstrual cycles and can require hospitalisation. The abdomen is very unhappy when there are fluids like blood seeping inside and the reaction is the body tries to fight off what it thinks is a foreign body. Infections are possible.

The human treatment is either full hysterectomy or the surgical removal of the endometrial tissue, which can be a major or minor operation depending on how much tissue and how many adhesions there are (where the tissue is attacjed to internal organs). Hysterectomy (eg spaying in a dog) removes the cause of the endometriosis -- eg the heat cycle.

Endometriosis tends to increase in severity over time as those of us with it can unfortunately testify. If she is already showing signs of it now you would probably want to act to remove the cause (eg have her spayed as soon as you can so she doesn;t go into another cycle and go through all of this again).

Most of us with endo find doctors do not know very much about the condition and even some specialists are unaware of it and what the symptoms are. Endo often acccompanies ovarian cysts in humans; I don't know about dogs. These are sacs that form around the ovary and fill with fluid and can become very large. If they burst, they can be life-threatening (like appendicitis), so doctors tend to want to remove the cysts when they occur. Again this requires abdominal surgery.

[Jen114]

Thank you very much for your quick reply........ it is very informative and i guess i will be spaying Kayla sooner than i wanted too...

You would be very disgusted to hear about the ONLY cav breeder in Malta.......

1) first of all there are roumors that she doctors the pedigree bec she has soo many cavs in her house she is not sure which one is the dad so she just invents it.....

2) the dad of KAYLA is the dad of every single cav which comes to the dog show in malta ie... 10 cavs

3) seeing there is not health checking at all in MALTA.... No scans....no cardiologists..... not mri's.... ect.............. (IN MALTA WE JUST GOT THESE THINGS FOR HUMANS LESS THAN 10 YEARS AGO)

4) The breeder is really really not caring at all and i am sure that if i tell her which i will anyway about the condition of Kayla so will not give a dam... because she is a cold hearted ******** i better not continue what i think she is as i will be bleeeeeepped out.... but as you can see i am upset about this......

Now is there anything we can do about her and the way she breeds her animals ...... NO...... is there anything at all we can do ...... NO as in Malta they are so far behind and to be honest it does not seem as if they care...


I know alot of Cavs in Malta who have MVD and are on medication therefore that shows that the breeding is not done properly here.....

I really want to get another Cav in the next few years or so but i have no idea what i am going to do to get one......

NOW THESE PUPPIES HAVE TO BE LOVED AND JUST LIKE A DISABLED HUMAN WE CAN NOT ABANDON THESE PUPPIES ...... MY mom is going to buy one and so is my Sister in law and we will just have to love them and hope to be lucky that they are not sick

ITS A SAD SITUATION ISNT IT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karlin]

Can;t find anything on dogs having it except a 1966 study, but assume it will be very much the same as in humans.

Here's a background article on the condition:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1843962.stm

[Jen114]

AND TO BE HONEST t

I DO NOT TRUST ANY VET ON THIS ISLAND


When ever she is sick..... they give her a few injections and saw now she will be ok....

Every time the vet sees her they listen to her heart and it always was fine.... now this vet said it is not..... HOw can this bee when another vet listened to her heart 2 weeks ago....

Does this new vet have a ringing in her ear...


I DON'T KNOW I AM JUST FED UP WITH THESE STUPIED VETS I WANT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THERE DOING TO LOOK AT MY BABY

[judy]

how did they diagnose endometriosis? In people, it's usually hard to diagnose for a time, and is similar to other possible diagnoses. I never heard of treating endometriosis with antibiotics before. I'm not saying they dont', i'm NO expert about this, but what tests or evidence did the vet base that diagnosis on? What antibiotic is she on? I can understand why you are feeling mistrusting about this vet. When will your usual vets be back?
Are you sure she doesn't have a worm infestation causing her symptoms?

Vets and doctors do make mistakes and then those can lead to treatments that are harmful. Once a couple of years ago my then 86 and somewhat demented mother went to the eye doctor for follow up on cataract surgery, on a Friday. I called the doctor just to stay on top of what was done. Her part time caregiver had said they gave her medicine to put in her eyes. I could not speak to the doctor and got very little info from the office staff.
The next day, my mom who lives alone woke up with some very bad pain in her eyes and head. The caregiver went over and put cold compresses on her head. I called the doctor but there was another doctor on call. He said that was pain was a common side effect of the medication which was for glaucoma. ???Why didn't anyone tell me when i called the day before about the glaucoma diagnosis? she never had that at all before? why didn't anyone tell me about the common side effect of the medication? the on call doctor stopped that medication and put her on a different one. Some time later, a few weeks i think, she had an appointment at the eye place, and i don't remember why but she saw the doctor who had been on call that day instead of her regular one. I went with her, which i usually don't have time to do. They used a machine to test her glaucoma. THERE WASN'T ANY FREAKING GLAUCOMA. Never was. they tested and retested. Good news. but scary that doctors can misdiagnos and treat accordingly. the doctor who did this is supposed to be among the very best in the field, he teaches at UCLA and is pioneering new kinds of cataract surgery, and thinks he's all that, wont' return your calls, etc. The other guy was very focused and caring and intelligent. took her off the glaucoma medication and just monitors her for signs of it.

So let the patient beware. If you can, i would get a second opinion. Endometriosis is not usually an emergency. And hopefully, fingers crossed, the vet misdiagnosed a heart murmur. It certainly seems possible. I was told i had mitral valve prolapse for years and years, had to take antibiotics for dental work, had an echocardiogram that showed "mild MVP" , they could hear a click when listening to my heart, not just one doctor, lots of them heard it over years. then one said i had a slight murmur. that was heard a few times over time. A couple years after that, i was told no murmur could be heard, and then, after a little while, i was told the MVP noise was not heard. Later on, i had another echo gram for another thing (slow heart beat) and was told there was no sign at all of MVP. I was told all those other doctors had been wrong. I don't know...

[Karlin]

Vets will listen to hearts and should always give an opinion based on what they hear. Most vets are not nearly as good as a cardiologist at detencting and grading murmurs but that is normal -- cardios are specialists in this one area; while vets are general practitioners. Likewise your GP would likely pick up a bad human heart murmur with a stethoscope but might not hear a sensitive murmur at all. I have a chart in the health section that shows how unlikely vets are to pick up early stage murmurs compared to cardios but some can do this much better than others so it isn't at all surprising for one vet to hear and another not to, so don;t feel to disconcerted by that.

The problem is being certain of what is going on if there's no cardiologist to confirm the murmur.

If you want a heart-healthy cavalier, there's always the choice of seeking out a breeder outside Malta who breeds for health. Many people travel to get the right cavalier from the right breeder, including across or between continents, so maybe this is the right way to go.

I don't agree that one should get cavaliers from an unethical breeder because someone needs to take the puppies. Cutting off demand is the best way to deal with poor breeders. Paying to take their puppies simply maintains them in doing what they are doing and gives them the financial incentive to keep breeding. The puppies are unlikely to lack homes -- there's always someone who will take them but someone who knows the real situation needn't support the breeder.

Where does this person show their dogs (eg what club do they belong to) and what registry do the puppies have -- you can always file a complaint with whoever is registering the puppies for example as well as the club they belong to.

[judy]

karlin--sorry you have endomeriosis. what a coincidence that you father is a pioneer in the specialty!

How is endometriosis diagnosed? Does it generally require a laparoscopy? I used to have undiagnosed pelvic pain so i read about everything that it could possibly be. As you said, a lot of people with this condition are not diagnosed because their doctors don't know enough. Can a knowledgeable doctor distinguish a patient with endo just by history and physical examination?

I was surprised to hear that Kayla was diagnosed with endometriosis--i didn't know it was that easy to diagnose. Maybe that vet has seen a lot of cases? Is there an blood test marker that's specific for it?

[rory]

Dogs don't get endometriosis. I'm sure she said Kayla has endometrITIS, not endometriOSIS. Plus, endometriosis is NOT an infection, which is what your vet said she had. Endometriosis is endometrial (uterine) tissue that is in the wrong place (like, outside the uterus, along the fallopian tubes, etc.)

Hope the heart murmur is nothing. I have had 2 people say they "maybe heard a 1/6 murmur" on rory and I've had a bunch of others say they can't hear anything. So we'll be getting an echo to see what's really going on. At a very low level, murmurs can be very hard to detect. So either the two who heard it have very good ears, of they are just "hearing" it because he's a Cav and they expect to hear a murmur. Either way I am not too worried because if it's that slight it's not going to be causing any problems right now. Best to see what is really going on now and then monitor progression.

did you say your mom and sister are going to get dogs from this breeder?? why support this woman who you obviously do not trust or respect? it is not like supporting disabled people because this woman has teh choice to bring these dogs knowingly into the world under less than ideal circumstances and knowingly producing unhealthy dogs without caring. Can't you fly in a dog from another country?? can't you fly into another country and bring a dog back with you?

[cleopatra]

i pray that kayla gets better really soon, you must be going mad with worry, you have a lot of people thinking of you both and wishing her good health xoxoxox

[Gillian]

Now we are really confused. Got a second opinion! Kayla was not getting any better so called another vet who came home to see her.He said it wasnt her uterus but a intestinal infection. Advice was keep her on same antibiotics othe vet gave us and vitamin food supplement and call him on Monday if she is not any better. He also gave her two injections,One to settle her stomach and one for her appetite. These vets are going to drive us crazy.
Not sure how she is this morning as my daughter Jenny has her on weekends. I am sure she will call me soon.