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unusual behavior

:( I'm sorry Zach isnt feeling better. Poor guy. He always seems to have a rough time of things.

I'll be thinking of the two of you!!
 
:( I'm at work, the vet office called and said my appointment for 6:30pm had to be cancelled. So i made one for 2pm. i just emailed the links to karlin's site to the vet. i'm bummed because i need to take off in the middle of the day and go pick up zack in the opposite direction from the vet and then take him home and then come back, this is not a day when i can take off. I'm off all week next week and need to tie up loose ends and stuff. but if the vet can just do something to make zacky feel better, i'll be happy.
 
Judy,

I don't know what time it is over there with you but I hope things went OK. Before Maxx was formally diagnosed as having SM by an MRI scan, my Vet put him on Prednisone, Frusamide and Rimadyl. This won't affect the scan results but may possibly help to relieve Zack's symptoms if he does have SM.

Let us know how you get on. Big hugs to you both

XXXXX
 
thanks for the good wishes.
zack is still in bad shape. all he can do is lay down, he won't go out to pee, it seems like something is wrong with his legs, weakness maybe because he's not showing pain signs or sensitivity. Like, when i take him outside, he takes a few steps and then lies down. when i got his harness and leash to take him to the vet, usually, he's very eager to go out, but he just laid down at my feet when i had to stop and pick up something. i carried him down the stairs.

he's very affectionate, wants to kiss all the time. he's normally affectionate but this is more. he wants to lay on me. he likes to be stroked.

when we got to the vet he really perked up because he knows other dogs might be there. there was another little dog there and zack was very excited, tail wagging like crazy, straining toward the other dog, but not as strong as his usual pull on the leash.

the vet couldn't find anything wrong with him, unsurprisingly. She hadn't seen my email. i told her i sent the links to the SM stuff, and she expressed appreciation for that, and listened to what i said about people saying it sounds like SM, she was well aware of the frequency of it in this breed and she took the possibility seriously. she was already feeling his backbone before i brought up SM. she felt him all over and said he didn't seem to have any pain. yet while we were talking he started wimpering. she said 'is this what he's been doing,' and i said 'no, he's just doing it right now.' it was a different kind of whimper from what i've heard before.

i told her about the brewers yeast, garlic, diatomaceous earth, and the neem oil. She said maybe the combination of all those things threw him off. She gave him subcutaneous fluids, she said maybe it would wash him out, he had a big bulge on his neck from the injected water after but now it's gone.

She said she could do a blood panel but thought it would probably not show anything, and he just had one when he was neutered. but he didn't have these symptoms when he was neutered, so i asked her to go ahead and do it. it was my call. at the time of the neuter, it was expensive, $110, so i figured i could deal with that. But when i got the bill from the visit today, the total was $320 :( $180 of it was the blood panel. geez. I asked the guy about it, after it cost $110 at the time of the neuter and he said "The prices just went up a couple of weeks ago." wow.

i'll be making an insurance claim. i wonder if they will pay a claim without any diagnosis.

the other things i paid for were, she expressed his anal glands, her idea, i asked them to clip his toenails, and the cost of the exam, and the subcutaneous water. She also washed out his ears, but there was no charge for that.

so...he's the same. He hasn't been out to pee since this morning and he had all that water. He declined my invitation to go out when i got home. The door is open if he wants to go. At least if he peed in the house whle i was gone, i haven't seen it. I had to take him home and go back to the office for almost 4 hours. He still doesn't want to walk or stand up, he still is licking his paws a little. the vet didn't find any sign of any illness on him.

something is really wrong with him. he's not acting in pain, but just very lacking in any desire to walk or play, which is so abnormal.

Since i got home, he has a weird odor, i dont' know how to describe it. I wonder if it could be from the subcutaneous fluids.

the vet said if he didn't improve in the next day or two, she would do acupuncture on him.

i hope she will read the stuff i sent about SM.
 
i just looked up garlic--in Wikipedia it says onion and to a lesser extent garlic, has theosulfate which can cause hemolytic anemia in dogs and cats.
:(

i'm glad i had the blood panel done.

She said his heart was clear.
 
Gosh Judy. Sorry you're having such a rough time. It's so distressing when they don't feel right and no one can figure out what was going on. One night Jake really through me for a loop. He was very lethargic. I ended up sleeping in the spare bedroom with both of them (so I didn't wake up hubby). Jake was extremely clingy...had to be touching me all of the time. Then when I put him down on the floor he wouldn't move. He yelped when I touched him. Just really odd behavior. Of course I rushed him to the vet as soon as they opened. You know what...he had gas!! The reason for him twisting up funny and yelping was intestinal distress. The next day he was back his normal self. You never know. Keep us posted on his condition.
 
cathy, thank goodness it was gas--poor baby. i can picture you sleeping with them--not knowing what it was, or what might happen. It's like they come to us, thinking we can fix it. that's hard, to not be able to help.

i sure hope whatever it is with zack will pass and he will come through it and be his usual self again. something is really really wrong. I think he is worse each day. the first day, he was still running around and playing, and was just acting abnormally off and on. By yesterday, the second day, he was laying around all day. I got him two new toys, haven't got him new toys in a long time. he played with them for a minute and then laid down. He did go pee in the morning right away, but unusually, he peed on the patio instead of in the grass. In retrospect, i think he didn't want to walk a little farther to make it to the grass. today, he didn't want to go out at all, though he still showed a little interest in the possibility of a squirrel in the tree, he looked up. i was afraid he wouldn't go before i had to go to work, but then i asked him to go out again and he did, and he peed, but very little. i hope his kidneys are ok. he hasn't been drinking but his appetite is really strong, not for his kibble, he isn't eating that at all, but yesterday and today i gave him a small can of Canadae and he really wolfed it down, and he wanted more when he was done. i wasn't sure whether to let him eat all he wants. i am in unknown territory.

he isn't licking his feet or rubbing his head and body much anymore, it seemsl like he doesn't have the energy. He just lays and sleeps. i'm so worried about him.
 
Gosh, judy -- He does NOT sound good... :( I don't know what it is, but he is obviously not well. That's disappointing that the vet couldn't find anything wrong. Hope the bloodwork shows up something. The smell you are smelling is probably from the anal glands or the ear cleaning. The anal glands smell "fishy". Very distinct odor.

If he gets worse, I would take him in to the emergency hospital for fluids and observations. It could be anything. Is he still eating? Drinking?
 
I hope Zack is feeling better soon. So many times I wish our pups could tell us what is wrong. Its good that he perked up at the vets and that he wants to eat.

Has Zack been pooping normally even though he doesn't want to pee?

You said he was chewing on a cup, was it paper or plastic? Could he have swallowed something that will not pass out of his system?

India sometimes behaves like you are describing, wanting to lay down and not wanting to pee, and in her case it always seems to be related to her urinary tract. We have to monitor her for pH, crystals, UTIs.

Also, a she had a tummy ache once that made her want to lay down a lot.

Please keep us updated on how he's doing.
 
rory said:
Gosh, judy -- He does NOT sound good... :( I don't know what it is, but he is obviously not well. That's disappointing that the vet couldn't find anything wrong. Hope the bloodwork shows up something. The smell you are smelling is probably from the anal glands or the ear cleaning. The anal glands smell "fishy". Very distinct odor.

If he gets worse, I would take him in to the emergency hospital for fluids and observations. It could be anything. Is he still eating? Drinking?

thank you for clearing up the smell--it must be the anal glands because it's fishy. hopefully it goes away eventually?

about eating, normally if i open the cabinet door where his food is, he is all over the door and trying to get into the cabinet. Today, he just lays there and looks at me. but when i took the can in to where he's laying on the sofa and held it in front of his face and asked if he wanted some, he got up and got down on the floor--slowly, gingerly, and came into the kitchen. When i put the food down for him, he wolfed it, he ate it eagerly, very eagerly. When he was done he wanted more but i'm going to wait til the morning because he is not really eliminating. No poops since day before yesterday i think. All he ate yesterday was one small sized can of canadae food, not much quantity-wise. but he only had one poop yesterday and none today. Usually he was having about three a day.

at least while i've been home, he hasn't drank any water. He had an injection of fluids at the vet's office. She is in all day tomorrow and Sunday and Monday, so from the way it looks right now, we'll be going back to see her soon.
 
If he's not pooping he should see the vet again. He should be checked for a blockage - maybe they could take an xray. I would not tempt him to eat with tasty morsels if he isn't getting up to eat.
 
Cathy Moon said:
...Has Zack been pooping normally even though he doesn't want to pee?

not exactly. there was one poop day before yesterday morning that was there from the night before, and no other poop yesterday. Today no poop until just now, 11pm. Usually there are about 3 per day. but he hasn't had as much to eat as normal. it doesn't seem to me that he's not pooping and peeing because he can't, but because he doesn't want to stand up. I took him outside just now and after some hesitation, he peed and pooped. what a relief for me. whew.

You said he was chewing on a cup, was it paper or plastic? Could he have swallowed something that will not pass out of his system?

That's a good guess--there's a possibility. I had thought of that the first day but kind of forgot about it because he doesn't seem to have any abdominal pain, certainly not any nausea, he eats hungrily. i was more thinking about the neurological symptoms. I'm not sure if it's paper or plastic or both. I'll check and see if they say what it's made of on the wrapper. It reminds me of plastic because it's shiny.

India sometimes behaves like you are describing, wanting to lay down and not wanting to pee, and in her case it always seems to be related to her urinary tract. We have to monitor her for pH, crystals, UTIs.

poor girl. That's hard to stay on top of, it's a silent kind of thing. I'll ask the vet about that tomorrow.
 
Cathy Moon said:
If he's not pooping he should see the vet again. He should be checked for a blockage - maybe they could take an xray. I would not tempt him to eat with tasty morsels if he isn't getting up to eat.

OK. i was really not sure about how to handle eating. intuitively, i would think he shouldn't be eating because he's inactive, totally inactive. but on the other hand, i thought he should have some kind of nutrients. but it's not like he's burning up calories. i'll talk to the vet tomorrow about the possibility of a blockage, and an xray. thank goodness he did poop tonight, a normal looking one pretty much, the usual size.
 
after the trip outside to the backyard, zack hopped up in my lap and eventually he started playing, a little low intensity play biting. i was happy to see him wanting to play. so while i was playing with him, i was thinking his nose, the end of his muzzle, upper lips and chin, looks pinker than usual. I wasn't sure, i don't usually look that closely. but i was looking closely at it, and i was feeling his muzzle all over while he was biting my hand, and i noticed a hardened lump or bump on the top of his muzzle just above his nose. and then i found a couple more crusty hard bumps around his mouth, one on his upper lip and one on his chin, and another between his chin and his throat. and then i found one on his chest. when i touch these bumps it seems to bother him. they're pink and crusty on the top and fairly hard. kind of scabby. there may be more, i didn't do an exhaustive search.

does this sound like a symptom of allergy? or a symptom of anything? they don't seem to be in areas that he could've caused by licking or scratching, though i suppose it's possible. i'm certainly no expert. they're very hard to see. they're not bleeding or draining, they're dry and hard.

i wonder if it would hurt to give him benadryl again.
 
Judy I wonder if he could have been bitten by something that has caused him to feel ill. How big are the bumps? It could be an allergy but usually with urticaria the bumps don't go scabby and they are quite prolific and cover most of the body.

Do you have any ants that bite where you live? It sounds like a large blood sucking insect or similar might have bitten him. I think I would call the Vet back again and see what they say. I do know that bites can be pretty painful and can sometimes make even humans feel quite ill :(

Again, with anal gland problems it can make the dogs constipated and quite poorly too - last week, Maxx had a case of impacted & infected anal glands and he was in so much distress it was unbelieveable, he was also very lethargic and grizzly :( My Vet gave me some antibiotics and painkillers for him and now he is fully recovered.

It is so worrying when our babies are poorly and it's at times like these we really wish that they could talk! I hope he recovers soon Judy. Give him hugs and kisses from me xxxxx
 
Oh I so hope Zack is feeling better soon. His weakness could be dehydration...so I am glad he got some fluids. So hard when they can't tell us what is bothering them. Will be thinking of you and Zack. Keep us posted.
 
Judy I would really get him in to the vet if he isn't eliminating. A blockage can be lethal. he really needs to be under supervision I think rather than us guessing what might be the problem. You are describing what could be a potentially serious and/or painful problem and he needs to have that checked.

For SM you will need him to be checked by a neurologist. Usually there are other signs of SM than just not using his hind legs. It sounds like he is in a lot of pain and it is uncomfortable to walk. Given that he has had a shrieking episide, you may be seeing SM. Also some SM dogs have a difficult time pooping because the straining causes severe pain (same as in humans with SM).

I would try and find a vet that is open and take him there; not wait. Given the whole set of things together, I think indicate some sort of pain you would want addressed. He needs to be eliminating. Also they need to check him for pain and try to treat that.
 
Judy, I'm glad to hear he pooped and peed. I would put a bowl with kibble down for him and let him eat some if he feels like it, but would not offer him any tasty treats. If he doesn't want to eat kibble, then he probaby is better off not eating until he is seen by a vet.

After you noticed and wrote about the bumps and crusts, I found a link that might be helpful. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1593&articleid=424

Sounds like an allergic or drug reaction. It might be the neem oil or one of the other things you mentioned. Or has he been on an antibiotic within the past 2 weeks?
 
Oh one more thing I just thought of. Those bumps could actually be between his toes, if this is an allergic or irritant contact reaction. That may account for him not wanting to walk.

The diatomaceous earth is very sharp and could be irritating between his toes if it didn't come out in his bath.

Hope he feels better soon, and you too!
 
Sorry I missed the fact that he pooped, in that long sequence of messages.

If he was bitten by something that could explain some of these symptoms. An allergy would not explain the fact that he is finding it hard to walk or eliminate.

SM could explain all the things you were seeing but so could other things. Given the high incidence in the breed, an MRI is almost certainly going to show SM in probably a minimum of half of all cavaliers anyway, and the malformation that causes it in about 90%, as now two studies and numerous screening programmes are consistently showing. So the issue is probably not whether he has conditions that are part of SM or the causes of SM, but whether these things in particular are clinical signs rather than something else as clearly, a lot of dogs have SM without showing clinical signs or showing only very mild signs.

It is a very complex area with no easy answers or solutions.
 
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