Conventional Vaccines Vs Nosodes....

Thanks Karlin and Judy for both of your posts.

Karlin, ref your info on the vaccines. Polio in particular, I know of a few families who have been affected by Polio after one of the children have been vaccinated Also, my own sister-in-law has had lung problems all her life because of a Polio vaccine and was unable to have children due to the damage it did to her body

Rubella vaccine is not without side affects either. I knew a family whose child had been left severely disabled after a routine jab went wrong

You know, reading down the list of all the vaccines taht you put up, I don't know why my mother bothered getting me vaccinated at all - I contracted ALL the childhood illnesses with the exception of chickenpox & there wasn't a vaccine for that at the time!

My youngest son had an extremely nasty reaction to a TB booster (first one didn't work) and ended up having 3 courses of antibiotics to clear the deep infection left in his arm. Extremely preferrable to contracing TB I know but you try telling that to a sobbing child who is in agony :roll:

Judy, the two scientists involved in the whole MMR/Autism debacle have now been totally discredited and have admitted that they were wrong. I personally know a family who had their first daughter vaccinated, only to find out at around 18mths old that she was Autistic. When their second daughter was born, they refused to have her vaccinated at all. Sadly, at 11mths old she too was diagnosed as Autistic. This was particularly upsetting for them as they had high hopes for both girls (don't we all for our children?) as she is a Teacher and he is a Scientist. I do actually wonder if it is caused like other things, by a faulty gene or environmental factors - all the pesticides used etc cannot be good for our reproductive systems.

I think I have opened up a whole can of worms with this thread - sorry!

Maxxs_Mummy said:

I think I have opened up a whole can of worms with this thread - sorry!

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I'd rather have the worms out in the open than not. :shock:
thanks for the info on the autism thing, i had only been hearing (on TV just recently) about the people testifying in congressional hearings, trying to get laws to protect against thimerosol, related to autism, but the ideas i have just come from stuff like that, and from like you, and karlin, people bringing forth what they know and/or believe.

really sorry to hear about all those bad experiences you went through--it's the last thing you want, to have your kid have a reaction that doesn't just go away in a day or so, though as you say, not as bad of a nightmare as the disease itself.

it just seems wise to me to take in information, especially conflicting information, in order to weigh it all, and continue to keep the mind open because there's always more to learn. i'm glad you brought this up. I had just been hearing stuff about vaccinations but there's only so many hours in a day and i hadn't had enough reason to read the original source material people were talking about, and im glad i read those things yesterday, i'm that much better informed, still more to look into.

Sounds like you have had some unusually bad reactions to vaccines amongst those you know, Donna -- I quite honestly have never, ever met or known of a single case of a vaccine reaction in my life (and I ain't a young 'un either!).

While any reaction to a vaccine is unfortunate, most reactions if any are very minor,especially in comparison to the consequeces to the general population of no vaccine at all, as the statistics show. Polio was a major killer right up to about the decade I was born. In Ireland, the vaccine was introduced later than in the US and I actually know two people my age who are disabled from polio and wear braces/are in wheelchairs. Sadly many who are affected in this way get a very serious onset of llness in old age as well so they get struck twice by the disease. I have never met anyone in the US of my own age, affected by polio, as the vaccine simply wiped out this disease very quickly. It was a shock to meet people my age in Ireland with polio -- it was an elderly person's disease by the time I was a child. I still remember going to my grade school and getting a sugar cube in a little paper cup with the vaccine.

The alternative to not having the rubella vaccine was, as indicated, huge numbers of miscarriages and deaths every year directly attributed to rubella -- the fatality rate was extremely high. Few would want to trade those risks again.

I feel we are so distanced from how things used to be that we now have the luxury of thinking it might be nicer to dispense with the vaccines that mean childhood death is now very rare -- where at one time it was the norm to have some of your siblings die before they became teenagers. Meanwhile huge numbers of children die in developing countries that still do not have access to basic vaccines, from diseases long since all but eradicated in the developed world.

Titer testing could've avoided this.

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Judy, titers are often not accurate so this is simply not true. You can google accuracy and titers and this comes up all over the place. Or ask a doctor. There is indeed such a thing as partial immunity -- this is thoroughly discussed in the matter of flu vaccines for an epidemic that will eventually happen, for example. It is recognised as well in people who were vaccinated a long time ago for smallpox (before it was eradicated) and who, upon testing years later, retained partial or full immunity to it. And as it was my father, an emeritus professor of internal medicine, who noted that I'd only have had partial protection/partial immunity, I will take his word for it.

Poeple who contract the disease despite the vaccination have either received compromised ineffective vaccine or there is a problem with the immune response in that individual.

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On what are you basing this interpretation? This is not true or scientifically accurate (unless by lack of immune response you are agreeing with my point -- that a single vaccine gave only partial cover to many people which could be said to be a 'problem with the immune response in that individual'). Most people did not get measles again simply because they were not exposed to it -- just as most people do not get the flu every year despite it being a lot more common than measles. I had a classroom full of students I was teaching at the time and about a fourth got measles and gave it to me. Even when exposed to an illness you don't always get it, of course. The vaccine did not 'fail', it gave only some rather than full immunity to many people. It needed a booster to ensure it was effective. That is what is now done.

As noted people are of course entitled to do as they please with their animals when it comes to vaccines, but they need to understand the risks involved with their choices. And also to make those choices under informed guidance eg a holistically trained vet.

OK then, here is an email that I received from a qualified Homeopath with regards to Nosodes.....


Homeopathic vaccination does not work in the same way and
conventional
vaccine. The theory of Conventional vaccine is that when it enters the
body the immune system makes antibodies and then when , if the disease
is picked up by the dog/person etc the anti bodies present will attack
the disease and cure the body. This does not actually work as commonly
believed. The 'disease' is introduced to the body in an abnormal way,
that is it is injected into the body bypassing the major immune system
defences. The anti bodies are not therefore produced as they should be
and are often inadequate. Hence conventionally vaccinated dogs/people
still get the disease and some do still die from it. This is entirely
due to the individuals own ability to deal with specific invasions of
disease.

Homoeopathy encourages the immune system to be strong and thereby as
soon as it is exposed to a disease it recognises it and can attack.

So a titre test will not show an increase in antibodies as a
conventional vaccine will but the immune system is markedly stronger.

The conventional vaccine is not required every year. New independent
research ( available on the internet) shows after the first vaccines
the
dog is covered for life. but with lepto, kennel cough and parvo these
are very poor vaccines anyway and often offer less than 6 months
'cover'.

I have been using the homoeopathic vaccinations for 20 years. My last
4
dogs ( 3 Newfoundlands and one Russian Black Terrier ( currently the
Russian and an 8 month Newfy boy) are wholly vaccinated with
homoeopathic nosodes. In all those years despite them coming into
contact with these diseases ( confirmation of dogs they have been with
going down with the diseases, despite being conventionally vaccinated)
our dogs have never experienced one sick day due to these diseases. I
have over 200 clients who vaccinate solely with nosodes to maintain a
strong active immune system and none have ever had a problem, I know on
no dogs that have dies of any of the vaccinated diseased who have had
homoeopathic as well as conventional or homoeopathic protection alone.

Your vet is likely to have a fit if he is unaware of either the
research
the changes in the germ theory that has been religiously taught for
many
years, since Pasteur's time in fact and never questioned, until now and
now it is shown to be incorrect, yet still it is taught in all teaching
hospitals and colleges both in human medicine and veterinary medicine.

It is something you have to decide upon for yourself , no one can make
that decision for you but I can say this. no one can be more
protective
of their dogs as I am and I would never put them at risk knowingly, I
am
happy to have all my dogs treated with homoeopathic vaccine and know
they will be healthier and more able to fight any disease with a strong
immune system because they are treated this way.

I have several clients with cavaliers who have Syringomyelia and they
are vaccinated homoeopathically. Any animal or person who is less than
100% fit in all ways should, in my view be subjected to vaccination by
conventional methods. That view is shared by thousands of doctors and
vets and even the manufacturers of the vaccines so if it is better not
to vaccinate conventionally at that time why is there a problem giving
them homoeopathic nosodes to protect them (that have no side effects
whatsoever) whilst they are compromised?

<<However, my Vet is convinced that Nosodes do not work and will leave
the dogs with no immunity to Lepto and Parvovirus - both of which he
informs me are still around in enough measures to have killed around a
dozen dogs in that surgery alone last year.>>

But does he tell you how many dogs have died or been severely life long
affected by conventional vaccine in the same amount of time???) the
combined medical and veterinary) professionals take great pains to
publicise the benefits and usually this follows with and the side
effects are far outweighed by the benefits. Except of course for those
effected by the side effects!!!!!

Lepto, KC and Parvo are not very good vaccines anyway and the more you
pump in to the animal the less effective its immune system becomes.

The dog press carried an articles some years ago stating dogs over 8 no
longer required vaccination, now the research has proven after the
initial vaccines the dogs should not have more.

If you are still worried then you can give Thuja and homoeopathic
nosode
after conventional vaccine and minimise the side effects but for me my
dogs will never be subjected to conventional vaccine again and from
what
I have seen in the last 20 years my dogs have had very strong immune
systems, have had minimal health problems and even when having been in
contact with disease have shown no sign of it even though the dogs they
have been with have gone down with it. All but 2 dogs ( these belong
to
the same person) in the search unit are now covered by homoeopathic
nosodes and several who had occasional skin problems or other allergy
related problems are now fit and healthy.

As I say the choice is yours, only you can make that decision but
please
do as much research as you need and see what you come up with both for
and against conventional vaccination, especially in connection with an
animal who's health is compromised already.


www.gentletouchremedies.co.uk [email protected] 0871-7176871 10am - 5.30pm Tues - Fri ONLY!!!!!!!

The writer of the email has consented to me posting it on here and has asked that if anyone wants to buy remedies etc can they please only do so in the stated times above. (emails obviously OK anytime but will only be answered Tues-Fri).

I know this is an old thread, but i just ran across a commentary by Christie Keith, list owner of Beyond Vaccination, on the subject of nosodes, which i think belongs on this thread as yet another voice on the subject which may overlap with some others.

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Nosodes.htm

If i understand what she's saying, she expresses concerns about risks of using nosodes prophylactically on healthy dogs, based on homeopathic theory as she reads it, and she agrees with the view that the role for nosodes is in epidemic situations where there has been high risk of specific exposures, as a preventive, but again, she believes that if overused, as if in place of conventional vaccinations, in healthy puppies and dogs, this could undermine their health.