Really concerned

My fiance and I are the proud owners of a little 9 week old ruby. We have recently had some problems with her. On Sunday morning we woke to find her unable to stand. Her tongue was hanging out of her mouth and her jaw was jammed together. We immediately rang the vet and took her in. Thankfully she is ok in most respects. However, the vet was really concerned about her weight and size. She hasnt grown since we got her, which is 2 weeks ago. She weighs just about 1 kilo. The vet has told us to feed her 5 times a day with chicken, nuts and rice. The breader we bought from told us not to feed her chicken even if a vet tells us to. However, when your little precious puupy is not well and a vet tells you to do something its hard to do otherwise. Since we started feeding her this she is always looking for food and goes crazy when we feed her.

We were originally instructed to feed her 6 nuts 4 times a day for a week and then increase it to 12 nuts 4 times a day. When we increased the amount she had diarrhoea. We reduced to 8 and she was fine again.

We are desparate to get her weight up and would appreciate any advice, especially from people who have been through the same.

Wow, I am sorry to hear that happened to you!! Must have been awful.. Did the vet ever find out what caused that?

I don't know much about the chicken thing, except for I know there are others on here who have fed chicken during certian times. Maybe they can help you out more

Also if you're concerned about her weight, there is a nice recipe in the health library section called "satin balls."

here's the link:

http://cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1523

Maggy's Dad said:

My fiance and I are the proud owners of a little 9 week old ruby. We have recently had some problems with her. On Sunday morning we woke to find her unable to stand. Her tongue was hanging out of her mouth and her jaw was jammed together. We immediately rang the vet and took her in. Thankfully she is ok in most respects. However, the vet was really concerned about her weight and size. She hasnt grown since we got her, which is 2 weeks ago. She weighs just about 1 kilo. The vet has told us to feed her 5 times a day with chicken, nuts and rice. The breader we bought from told us not to feed her chicken even if a vet tells us to. However, when your little precious puupy is not well and a vet tells you to do something its hard to do otherwise. Since we started feeding her this she is always looking for food and goes crazy when we feed her.

We were originally instructed to feed her 6 nuts 4 times a day for a week and then increase it to 12 nuts 4 times a day. When we increased the amount she had diarrhoea. We reduced to 8 and she was fine again.

We are desparate to get her weight up and would appreciate any advice, especially from people who have been through the same.

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Nuts??? What kind of nuts. I have never heard of feeding dogs nuts. Mine would swallow them whole and pass, giving no nutrients and only giving loose stool.
Actually the more research I do - the easier it is to tell a vet NO. If I don't agree with my vet I will get a second or third opinion.
Why does it have to be chicken??? Why can't it be mince? Fish, eggs whatever. If the breeder told you NO CHICKEN, the pups dam may be allergic or something.
My pups weigh a kilo at about three to four weeks of age. I can't imagine a 9 week old being that small.

I agree with Sandy. I would find out from the breeder why she said no chicken. If it is an allergy then it is important for you to know that (and you'll probably also want to avoid dry kibble with chicken or chicken by products).

If you know why then you can let the vet know too and it'd probably be good for him to have that in his files anyway. I'd call the vet and let him know if it is a chicken allergy. He'll probably recommend another protein source to replace the chicken. Otherwise, I'd compare the experience and education of the vet and breeder.

I know there are lots of really great and educated breeders out there (and some of them are on this board) but as many of us know who did not really do adequate research before getting our dogs, there are also a lot of back yard breeders who really don't understand Cavalier health issues so well. I'd try to get a feel for where your breeder falls and also make sure you find a vet that you trust (if you don't trust your current one). As time goes by, you are planning to have this dog for many years and it'd be good to have a vet whose advice you feel 100% comfortable following.

I would strongly suggest having the vet worm your puppy. Our breeder swore up and down that Cupcake had been wormed a couple times before we took her home, but after two days with us I woke with her laying on the bed, unable to stand and pretty much on death's doorstep. We rushed her to the emergency vet and they checked her over for every possible malady and ended up putting her on an IV for two and a half days. When her blood sugar finally began to stabilize we took her home and wouldn't you know it the reason she was so sickly was due to the worms, which later the breeder admitted she may have "missed" Cupcake during the worming process.

The reason I bring this up is Cupcake was not gaining weight and really wasn’t all that interested in food. Due to the lack of nutrients she wasn't able to stand and would even go into dry heaves, which was very scary. The vet gave us some Hills A/D food, which I'm told is incredibly tasty to dogs when warmed up and eaten off a finger.

I wish you guys the best of luck, this is such a scary thing to go through.

Nuts in the UK and Ireland is the general term for 'kibble' (as in 'dog nuts').

Now: I would really want to get this puppy to another vet for a second opinion, explaining what happened. This sounds not like just a feeding situation but something potentially a lot more urgent -- there are a couple of medical conditions in which a puppy's mouth will clamp shut in this way. And also where a puppy cannot stand.

I have no idea why a breeder would say not to feed chicken as most puppies in my experience in the UK and Ireland are raised on it as puppies -- but at this point I'd not be paying a lot of attention to the breeder (especially one that sold a puppy only weighing one kilo, which is really undersize to begin with) and be more concerned at finding out what is wrong. Where are you based?

That's great that the pup is feeding and a great relief too for you. But the symtpoms you mentioned are not at all normal and I'd want to be looking into that more deeply than seems to have been done.

PS I feed the kind of diet you are feeding all the time. I have perfectly healthy dogs.

Would it be possible to take her to a different vet and have a second opinion?

Could it be possible that your puppy is much younger than the breeder stated? If that is the case, a vet could advise a special diet for a 3-4 week old puppy.

I will look for a thread we had a few months ago about what to feed young puppies and how often.

Please let us know how she's doing.

See my note on the term 'nuts' above.

I should add that I'd be extremely concerned at any breeder homing puppies at 7 weeks as well. That is at least a week too young -- I'd be complaining about this to the breed club if this is a breeder getting proper registration for puppies released at 7 weeks.

Here is a link about feeding young puppies, in case your puppy turns out to be much younger than what the breeder stated.

http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2865&highlight=feeding+young+puppies

lol-- Ok those kinda nuts make more sense.
I asked someone (vet tech) about the pup and she said it sounds like WORMS--.

I hope you can get her to a different vet soon and get her checked out again more thoroughly.

I can't wait to see more pics of your ruby baby once her problem is resolved and she's on the mend.

did the vet explain why the jaw was jammmed together and the tongue out while unable to stand? Did he say it was from starvation? I would need to have an explanation or diagnosis of those symptoms, along with the advise for what to do. Was a reason given.

It's great that she is perking up. Hopefully she will get better and better.

The mentoring i received about how to buy a cavalier, before and after I got mine, has generally been that a reputable breeder won't let a puppy leave its mother and siblings until 12 weeks old, because of the puppy's developmental needs and health. I would be not very confident in your breeder's advice when she would send such a young puppy away from its mother. It causes me to have suspicions about her priorities.

As others have said, i would definitely ask her why she said no chicken.

Good luck with your new puppy, i hope she continues to do well and you have or can find good vet care.

Just wondering, which puppy shots had she had before you received her, and how long before you brought her home did she have her most recent vaccination, and what was in the vaccination, which ones were done? Has she had any vaccinations since you brought her home? Some vaccinations or their adjuvants trigger neurological reactions and other reactions such as lethargy or poor appetite, usually lasting briefly but possibly longer. Does she need any remaining shots?

sounds like your little girl needs some full on nurturing and nothing harsh (such as more vaccinations among other things) until her system has been stable for some weeks and she is growing adequately. i'm glad she has you, with your appropriate concern and your seeking after more answers.

welcome! :flwr:

PS i almost gagged, imagining a dog being fed walnuts. Glad someone cleared that up. :shock:

Karlin said:

Nuts in the UK and Ireland is the general term for 'kibble' (as in 'dog nuts').

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Well I'm glad you cleared that up Karlin! I'm in UK and have never heard of dry food being called 'nuts' before. I was imagining a puppy being fed on peanuts :yikes

Does the Vet know what caused the pup's jaws to clamp and her tongue to hang out? Was it dehydration or something? How is she now?

Poor little baby. I can't believe that some breeders want to let their puppies go so early, I'd want to keep them as long as I could just like my breeder did with Maxx.

I've never heard of complete food being refered to as nuts, either. To me it's dried food or complet dried.

It's a very common term in Ireland for dried dog food (makes sense; it looks like nuts in shape! :lol and I have definitely heard some UK people use the term. I had thought it was more common than it is! In the US most people call it kibble. Often people in Ireland don't know what I am talking about when I say 'kibble'. I have never heard of referring to dried food as 'complete dried' so I guess it is all a matter of regions.

More seriously: A bad worm load could definitely make a pup very ill and thin. But the inability to open his mouth, even if it went away, is what concerns me. I know Cecily's little cavalier puppy wasdiagnosed with myositis and I know another case of a cavalier pup that had this as well. This is what I would want the vet to be looking into, as a frozen jaw is not normal, under any circumstances. It just seems odd that a vet wouldn't find that aspect alarming.

More info:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_masticatory_myositis.html

Note that they say:

Profile of the Masticatory Myositis Patient

The average patient age is 3 years. The most common breeds are German shepherds, Labrador retrievers, Doberman pinschers, Golden Retrievers, and Cavalier King Charles spaniels.

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In addition this is apparently a known problem in some young cavaliers. See:

http://medicine.ucsd.edu/vet_neuromuscular/cases/2006/mar06.html

Which notes this:

A severe and early onset form of masticatory myositis has been described in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, although this is yet to be fully characterized (see case of the month July 2005, http://medicine.ucsd.edu/vet_neuromuscular/cases/2005/jul05.html).

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I'd print out the info at both these links and take in to the vet.

Did your puppy come from a "proper" breeder or puppy mill/farm/broker?

....sounds like you were sold a very sick little one...any good breeder worth his/her salt would want to be very concerned with this little one and should not have sold her at only 7 wks....have you informed them of your problems? are they willing to help you with her? did you see mum/dad? or other siblings from the litter, did they seem healthy as well?

Lets hope with medical intervention your puppy will turn the corner and soon show improvement very soon.

Alison, Wilts, U.K.

WoodHaven said:

Maggy's Dad said:

My fiance and I are the proud owners of a little 9 week old ruby. We have recently had some problems with her. On Sunday morning we woke to find her unable to stand. Her tongue was hanging out of her mouth and her jaw was jammed together. We immediately rang the vet and took her in. Thankfully she is ok in most respects. However, the vet was really concerned about her weight and size. She hasnt grown since we got her, which is 2 weeks ago. She weighs just about 1 kilo. The vet has told us to feed her 5 times a day with chicken, nuts and rice. The breader we bought from told us not to feed her chicken even if a vet tells us to. However, when your little precious puupy is not well and a vet tells you to do something its hard to do otherwise. Since we started feeding her this she is always looking for food and goes crazy when we feed her.

We were originally instructed to feed her 6 nuts 4 times a day for a week and then increase it to 12 nuts 4 times a day. When we increased the amount she had diarrhoea. We reduced to 8 and she was fine again.

We are desparate to get her weight up and would appreciate any advice, especially from people who have been through the same.

Click to expand...

Nuts??? What kind of nuts. I have never heard of feeding dogs nuts. Mine would swallow them whole and pass, giving no nutrients and only giving loose stool.
Actually the more research I do - the easier it is to tell a vet NO. If I don't agree with my vet I will get a second or third opinion.
Why does it have to be chicken??? Why can't it be mince? Fish, eggs whatever. If the breeder told you NO CHICKEN, the pups dam may be allergic or something.
My pups weigh a kilo at about three to four weeks of age. I can't imagine a 9 week old being that small.

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They're not nuts in the traditional sense rather dog food about the size of a nut...sorry if I havent provided the technical term....

Cupcake Love said:

I would strongly suggest having the vet worm your puppy. Our breeder swore up and down that Cupcake had been wormed a couple times before we took her home, but after two days with us I woke with her laying on the bed, unable to stand and pretty much on death's doorstep. We rushed her to the emergency vet and they checked her over for every possible malady and ended up putting her on an IV for two and a half days. When her blood sugar finally began to stabilize we took her home and wouldn't you know it the reason she was so sickly was due to the worms, which later the breeder admitted she may have "missed" Cupcake during the worming process.

The reason I bring this up is Cupcake was not gaining weight and really wasn’t all that interested in food. Due to the lack of nutrients she wasn't able to stand and would even go into dry heaves, which was very scary. The vet gave us some Hills A/D food, which I'm told is incredibly tasty to dogs when warmed up and eaten off a finger.

I wish you guys the best of luck, this is such a scary thing to go through.

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Thanks, the vet gave her an injection for worms. We have all the medical records from the breeder with details of all the vacinations etc that she has been given.

Thanks to everyone for their concern. I think we will definately seek a second opinion. However, I have to say that we have seen an extrodinary change in our little girl over the last couple of days. She had bucket loads more energy and is more playful now. She devours her food and seems much more full of life.

She hasnt had any of those symptoms since. The vet did worm her. She told us that the first worming might not have been totally effective.

Our concern now is how mad she goes for food. She seems to want it all the time, gets very excited and pee's alot. We are taking her back on Thursday to the vet again for another check up. I will keep you all informed.

Glad to hear your little one has perked up.

Keep us posted on progress!