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Syringomyelia in 8 week old puppy

Karlin: Thanks for all of the information. It was invaluable. Now can I bug you and anyone else who may have suggestions with one more question? The breeders were feeding Lily, Science Diet dry puppy food. The Vet recommended the same thing. Both Vet and breeder said to feed her 2/3 cup 2x per day, although the bag said to feed a 5 lb. puppy only 1 cup a day. She doesn’t eat it well. Takes her all day to eat it when I put it out in the morning, and until it’s time for bed to eat what I put out in the evening. She is pooping about 6x day. I was reading some of the posts about a lot of food having filler, and this would make them poop more. The Science Diet has Corn listed as the first ingredient. Is there a better food that I can get in the States that she may eat better and maybe cause her not to poop as much? How much should I be feeding her? I always thought Science Diet was good food. That is what my Lhasa has always eaten, but was on the Ultra Allergen due to severe allergies. I am willing and ready for other suggestions. After joining this forum, I have learned so much that I didn't know
 
There are many, many threads on food. Just use the search feature at the top of the page, and you'l have hours of reading!!
 
Shay,

Can I point out to you something..... don't worry about the butt dragging so much (unless the is a problem identified by the vets) this is a common trait of the Cavaliers - they do it for fun I'm sure! Especially for a party trick in front of your friends!

I think Cathy Moon refers to it as the Boot Scoot Boogie! ( I hope I have not misquoted!) :lol:
 
Please don't beat yourself up over this. I too was very new to Cavaliers when we got Audrey. I did all the wrong things! Backyard breeder, had her shipped, asked wrong questions, you name it!!! We have been lucky so far. She is 2.5 years old and so far is healthy. I had heard about SM when we got her but the breeder's response was indignant, "her dogs didn't have that!". Once she was home safe and sound she was ours- every bit of her- it was sickness and in health! I am sure you will give Lilly a great life. I have learned so much from this board along with Cavalier Connection. Learn all you can, feed her the best diet you can afford, make her part of your family, and you will have an enriched life by her presence in it!

Oh and butt sliding!!!! We roll our eyes as she goes for a ride!! Just have her glands drained periodically. Audrey seems to need hers done about every six months.Best of luck!
 
Thanks so much for the words of encouragement. I am feeling so much better with all the kind words I've received from everyone on this site. She is not scooting as much now, but scratching, and every now and then she lets out a yelp. I am just ignoring things like this now, that a couple of days ago before reading all the replies, I would be freaking out over.
 
Lily is now 3 months old and the weird behavior that started about a week after we get her at 9 weeks is getting worse. My husband who kept telling me that she was fine, is not longer saying this. We are absolutely heartsick and very strongly think she has SM. I watched the 3rd video that Karlin put up a couple of days ago and she points her little hind leg out the same way the dog in the video does. The scratching is becoming more pronounced and more often. She is scratching her head and neck, ears and her sides, also shakes her head a lot. She is doing the air scratch while she is walking. She is chewing at her paws a lot. I changed her food and did not notice any improvement. She is yelping for no reason and when you pick her up. She is snapping at the air and licking her lips a lot. I am praying that there is another explanation for her behavior, but I just feel in my heart that she has SM. I read on another Cav site about a little dog named Odie who died at 10 mos. from this horrible diseases, and I pm'd his Mom who she told me his symptoms started as soon as they got him home. My pet insurance will be effective the middle of December and we will take her to a specialist then. Does anyone know of a specialist in my area who is familiar with SM as my Vets are not? Is it best to get the MRI at first or try to rule out other things first? I don't know what her prognosis will be getting it so young, if it is SM? The scratching is most pronounced when she comes in from going to the bathroom from being on her leach. She is not sensitive to the touch around her head or neck. It mostly seems to be under her arms and close to her sternum. Could his be anything other than SM? We are desperate that it is not SM. We love and adore this baby and will do whatever it takes to make her well. Thanks for any information you can give.
 
Hi Shay:

I am really sorry to hear this. It is impossible to diagnose without an MRI and a neurologist would need to see Lily, but on the basis of what you describe I think this is almost certainly going to be SM. The reason the symptoms get worse after she toilets is because the strain of going causes an intensification of discomfort -- humans regularly report this.

This list of neurologists also notes those who have been favourably commented upon by people with SM cavaliers:

http://cavalierhealth.org/neurologists.htm

I note Dr Axlund in Auburn AL is listed in red.
 
Thanks Karlin.....I thought that Aubrun would be the place. That is our vet school here in Alabama and is only a couple of hours from me. Will she need a referral from a Vet before she sees the neurologist or will they see her without a referral. Should I just call the school to get an appointment?
 
Her prognosis will depend on the results from an MRI. To be blunt, she will probably not have a very long lifespan unless the decompression surgery is an option. As she is progressing so quickly you would need to make that decision very quickly. If you spoke to a vet about your earlier concerns, and if your vet noted the excessive scratching and so forth at the time, insurance probably will not cover her treatment (and only Petcare in the US that I know of, covers SM treatment at this time). So just be prepared to need to make decisions regardless of insurance coverage. She really, really needs to be on some painkillers at this stage -- even something like metacam might help her. More likely she should be on gabapentin, perhaps steroids, perhaps frusemide to try and reduce the CSF pressure. On my SM website you can download the treatment protocol. The probem is that to treat her you also need to talk to a vet (has a vet seen her with all these symptoms? Again, if so, insurance will not cover her. You need a current vet report on a dog for insurance to cover the dog to eliminate existing conditions). Medications will not help for very long however in most dogs that are affected at a young age and/or progress rapidly in this way.

I am sorry to not have more positive things to say but you need to have an honest picture of choices and really need to think about waiting for three more weeks with no treatment for a dog progressing at this rate and in obvious pain, versus moving now to get her more comfortable and get her assessed. In similar cases neurologists have wanted to do the surgery (when surgery is possible) immediately to halt further progression. I know these are really hard choices but get the neuro exam asap so you know what you are dealing with and what your choices are; don;t base any decisions on my comments which are only an ediucated guess. Please let us know how things go.

You usually need a vet referral but sometimes you can call the neurologist directly.
 
BTW feel free to PM me anytime or email me; and also, be sure to inform the breeder as dogs producing puppies with early onset SM should not be bred again. But wait til you get a confirmation of what she has. There is always the chance of PSOM; I have info on that too on the SM website. But air scratching is likely to be SM.
 
When she had her last puppy shots, 2 weeks ago, I mentioned the scratching to the Vet and did not say much about this. This was my dilemma about the pet insurance. I got the PetCare because I strongly suspected she may have it, and I knew they covered genetic/hereditary diseases. She has not been treated for anything yet and her chart has been faxed to PetCcare. The insurance will kick in on 12/15. This is why I am trying to wait until then. Her 3rd puppy shots are due next week and I was trying to wait until the insurance is in effect, which would make her shots a week or 2 late. Then I was going to mention all her symptoms to the Vet so nothing would be preexisting. Does this make sense? She doesn't seem to be in pain except if you pick her up the wrong way, and she yelps. Would waiting 3 weeks so that I will have insurance make having suregery or other treatments not be effective? I am just so confused as to what to do. The insurance will certainly help us financially if we can wait.
 
You have about a two week window, as I understand it, to do the second shots without having to start all over.

You should have the vet try to to treat whatever else could be causing these things, by process of elimination. Have him check ears, spine, etc. The air scratching is the one thing that would have me concerned as it is a pretty clear symptom unique to SM, amd all these things together are worrying. But you do need to talk to your vet and have him/her examine Lily for any other cause, too. Most likely your vet will want to try a few things to see if these signs resolve. But give the vet the info on SM and ask if you can get a neuro referral.

Can you try to video some of these behaviours for the vet or neurologist?

There are two SM support groups that will also give you a lot of advice IF this turns out to be SM.

It is hard to know what the insurance will say. If your vet says there has been persistent scratching, they may then say it was a pre-existing condition. All you can do is proceed and see what happens. If she isn;t showing much pain then try not to do anything that will cause pain while you wait to get her in -- lift her only when necessary and very carefully, raise her food and water dishes so she doesn't need to hang her head down to eat or drink; try not to have her be too overactive as activity causes the CSF to move more quickly which progresses the condition, maybe feed soft food or add water to her kibble to keep her stools as soft as possible.

If your vet is dubious about SM I'd certainly ring the neurologist directly and ask for an appointment.
 
Shay - My heart is breaking for you. I am going to pray very very hard for you that this is not sm....and that if it is you will be able to properly treat her. Just wanted to let you know I am thinking about you and hoping for a positive outcome.
 
Shay - I really hope this isn't SM, but I know exactly the devastation and heartbreak you're going through. If she is progressing this rapidly, it might be better to get heer checked out before the insurance kicks in. But if you won't be able to afford anything without the insurance, then waiting might be in her best interests, too...

My thoughts go out too you and your family and I hope she is OK....
 
Thanks Cathy.....I am praying too that we are wrong and she has something like allergies, or inner ear or anything but SM. She is just so sweet and plays and plays and seems so happy. I just can't get past the scratching and yelping when she is picked up. Other than that she never seems to be in any pain, and she doesn't yelp when she scratches. It is very confusing. As I told Karlin we are tying to wait for the PetCare to kick in so maybe we can get the MRI covered. If I go to the Vet now they will consider anything she is treated for prior to then as pre-existing and it won't be covered. My husband's kids have been here all week and she has played with them like crazy and seemed to love every minute of it. So I sit here and watch her play like a perfectly normal puppy and think she is fine, and then all the wired signs start, and I think it' SM. It is just so frustrating. I appreciate your thoughts and prayers. I just need to get through the next 3 weeks until the insurance kicks in. Of course if she looks like she in getting worse or in pain, we will take her asap.
 
Thanks Rory...Did you have a Cav with SM? It is just such a heartbreaking disease. When I first thought she may have it, she was so young everyone thought it was just normal puppy behavior, but since then I have read more and more about very young puppies showing symptoms. As young as 8 weeks. She was about 9 or 10 wks when I started noticing the behavior. If she wasn't so young, I would be a lot more optimistic about the outcome if it is SM. She is laying on the floor playing with her toys and looking at me with those big sweet eyes and I just cry, and then she comes over to console me. Can you believe that? Why oh why in a breed as sweet as these precious babies, would they have to have such a horrible disease. It is so unfair.
 
Shay--this is so frightening and stressful.

About Petcare, do you have a copy of your vet's notes that were sent to Petcare? I routinely always ask for a copy of Zack's medical records for my own file on him. You can ask for a copy if you don't already have one. Then you could look and see what your vet wrote.

Scratching is so nonspecific, even if Lily turns out to be diagnosed with SM later, i question whether the Petcare underwriters could or would link the early scratching to SM. SM doesn't always have scratching, and even if she has SM, she also could've had a skin allergy, caused by such a myriad of things. If the vet wrote allergy down in her chart, all the better.

My experience with Petcare is that they go by what's written down and they don't read between the lines. Also, they go right by what your vet says, if a vet says it, they accept it. If your vet hasn't said SM, i don't think they will decide it was notated retrospectively. If a neurologist later diagnoses SM, i think they probably wouldn't go back and try to say that the earlier scratching was linked to the SM. It doesn't seem to be the way they operate in my experience. They just go by what's on the claim form and your vet's chart notes.

As far as seeing a neurologist goes, i'm pretty sure you don't need a referral. Petcare says clearly in their description of their policy that you can self refer to ANY VET. There is no requirement to get a referral from a regular vet to a specialist. You don't have to consult with your regular vet on it at all. If you want your dog to see a neurologist, you call and make an appointment and if there is a diagnosis of an illness, you submit a claim.

I know a lot of dogs are treated for SM without having MRIs. SM can only be diagnosed for certain with an MRI, but what this means for insurance purposes, i dont know. Apparently vets diagnose SM, at least provisionallly, without MRIs. I'm just wondering if your neuro consult could be covered before an MRI. But you will likely have an MRI so eventually you can claim the consult, one way or anohter, IF there is a diagnosis as a result.

i know you are heartsick and very worried about the medical costs. I hope most of all that whatever is causing the symptoms will not be SM. Whatever it is, i hope your insurance will cover it. my experience has been that Petcare just follows their own rules, and they dont' seem to be going out of their way to avoid paying claims. They are very document oriented, and if things are written a certain way by a vet, they will be covered. And they are not looking for any long explanations or treatises. If you look at their claim form, there is only one or two short lines for a vet to write the reason for the claim. If a clear diagnosis is written down, i think they will just pay it, up to your limit for that illness category. If they want more information, they will contact the vet. Every vet i've talked to about Zack and his insurance, which includes 7 vets, including an ER vet and a radiologist, all of them have indicated a willingness and eagerness to do whatever they can to get things covered by the insurance, several have explicitly said to me that they want to write whatever is necessary to get the claim covered.

One other thing--you might want to consult with a lemon law attorney. Your state may have lemon laws that cover puppies, lots of states do. the different states' laws are similar--in my state, you can sue the breeder if your puppy is sick and a vet documents the illness within a ceratin time after you got the puppy (up to a year for hereditary conditions). You may keep your puppy and have your vet bills reimbursed up to 150% of your purchase price in my state. A lawyer experienced in these laws would have to advise you. Also your state department of consumer affairs. I would also check public interest attorneys in nonprofit agencies. With laws, things change all the time, and the evolutionary movement is toward puppy lemon law coverage. More states pass these laws as time goes by. Maybe it won't be available in your state but may be worth looking into.

I couldn't find anything on Alabama puppy lemon laws on the web just now, but the list of puppy lemon law states may not be the most up to date info--you would need to check with your state department of consumer affairs, and perhaps try a free consultation with an attorney, these are available--just find out if there is case law in which puppy buyers have won restitution for sick puppies.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/lemon_intro.html
http://www.malteseonly.com/lemon.html

here's an attorney that says you get a free intake evaluation and also they say that you never have to pay fees for their representation on lemon laws. However, no doubt they take a percentage of what you win.

CLICK
 
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