Hi, I'm new and this will be a long post

This woman has a website, a phone number and lives in a very nice middle-class neighborhood in Long Island. If authorities wanted to find her, it would be pretty easy.

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And she has been charged but it can be hard to effectively bring charges. Ypu could easily attempt a prosecution for getting a dog that was supposed to be breed standard but is twice the breed standard, for example -- and under false pretences, because she does NOT get her dogs from relatives. She has been pursued under lemon laws. But she makes so darn much from selling cavaliers that I hate to tell you, cost about $50-100 directly from breeders and puppy farms in Ireland, shipping them at almost nothing from Ireland (I have been told this woman's son actually works for the airlines and gets them shipped free) and then charging you nearly 20 times what her costs were -- she can laugh all the way to the bank as she pays off fines. She is one of the ones we would really love to shut down over here and I know her website and some very sad tales of puppies bought from her.

The problem with brokers and BYBs is that they just hire a lawyer and are back in business in no time. There's another one in Idaho just the same (who regularly threatens me with lawsuits because I have posted stories about how her dogs were confiscated -- and returned to her by the police who couldn;t be bothered to prosecute) and one who left the midwest when she was successfully prosecuted by the state attorney general to avoid the fine/jail time. They resurface under other names sometimes or they just clear their fines and are back selling in no time. Prosecuting this type of deception and fraud isn't at the top of the list in most jurisdictions.

One general warning -- if anyone is thinking of buying a cavalier from anyone who has the word 'Celtic', 'Shamrock', or 'Irish' in their Kennel name or the name of their business, or who has little shamrocks or leprechaun figures on their webpage, or who claims their relative in Ireland breeds so they can import at lower cost, or that their dogs come from 'champion Irish and English lines', run, as fast as possible. :yikes

gadgetfreak said:

Well, I agree with almost everything you said and I am in no way defending the woman I used but someone else used the same phrase you did "she was prosecuted and still at large". This woman has a website, a phone number and lives in a very nice middle-class neighborhood in Long Island. If authorities wanted to find her, it would be pretty easy.
product" (i.e. relatively healthy dogs that behave according to the breed standard) so there aren't that many complaints. Again, I am not advocating on their behalf, but this may be the unfortunate reality.

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The breeder/broker in LI is not the infamous Jane--- Jane (the name Jane was only one of her names) moved from one state to another. IT was said that she chased people (inspectors) off her property with a shot gun. Nice byb--- Sandy

No, this is another one I am thinking of. But I do recall the notorious Jane too! This one I'm thinking of is also notorious, and now lists her vet reference on her ads -- a new touch to make her look more legit I guess; that wasn;t there last time I visited one of her ads. I wonder what he gets paid for shilling for her imports. :x Lots of vets over here make a nice packet doing the same to clear them for export.

Sigh.

I know people who have had a lot of problems with her. :| We may not all be talking about the same person of course, but in general, such people just want to take advantage of those who either know nothing, or who do research, know a bit to ask some of the right questions, but not enough to to know how to filter their song and dance. That can be really hard to decode and it takes time to learn what to watch out for!

Karlin - I love your example of putting a cup in a cupboard. This is what sold me on my current trainer. She did a demonstration of a correction at a meeting and used a member as an example. She the member touched the wrong thing she yelled "no" and stuck her finger in her face. You should have seen the member's face turn red. When asked how that felt she said "horrible!! Oh that hurt!!" Then she had her do the exercise again and lead with her gentle direction to get what she wanted. That will stick with me forever!!!!

Our dogs WANT to please us...all we have to do is give them the gentle direction as to what we want. Lee says "you CANNOT punish a dog for doing what a dog does" I love this!! She also reminds us that we are not teaching our dog to sit...they already know how to do that...what we are doing is attaching our language to their behavior. She describes it as teaching a foreign language to someone who doesn't know word one of our language. Show and guide.

Karlin, thank you for the great information. I thought the "shh" thing was good because that's what he was doing, but apparently not. I think I'm going to go where Sandy at WoodHaven is suggesting for training.

Oh, and I was totally into a breeder near here in the start of my search because she had puppies for $1200 and talked about this whole Celtic and Irish thing. I'm SURE you know who I'm talking about. But it was interesting, sure enough when I said that we'd want to come there first to see the parents, I NEVER HEARD FROM HER AGAIN. I'm sure the breeders in my area know who I'm talking about. What can be done about that?? First timers can totally get sold into her website! Thank God I searched longer and learned more and had an extensive talk with a very nice breeder in Grayslake and I learned so much more about everything.

Darn millers! I have that ladies address (the bad one). I'd love to just drive past there and see what it's like...

I think it is very difficult when you decide to buy your first dog to do the "right thing". I thought I was really doing my research, but there is so much out there on the internet, so many different opinions and misinformation from friends and family, it is easy to make mistakes. Audrey came from someone who I believe now is a backyard breeder and we had her shipped! Would I do that now-NEVER! I wish I had found these boards before purchasing but that was not the case. The same can be said about training. I was lucky enough to be blessed from the start with a great trainer/pet sitter who really educated me. However before that I read a dog training book that advocated leash correction and the like.

I guess the key is to keep learning all you can. I know I will do a better job when we get another dog from all the great advice from the folks on these boards.

Anyway Rusty sounds like a great guy even if he is a big fellow!!!

I would NEVER, ever buy a cavalier from anyone who advertises, whether it be on a 'Pets for You' type website, a dog magazine, or the newspaper! This type of advertising should put up a red flag for you! I would also not buy from a breeder just because they have a website.

The best way to find a reputable breeder is to attend dog shows and talk to the breeders. Buy the dog show book; it will have names of cavalier breeders in the index. Call several of the breeders and ask them for names of other reputable breeders when searching for a puppy. It is easier to find a reputable breeder by word of mouth than by any form of advertising! When we started our search for a cavalier, we made at least 20-30 phone calls, then drove 8 hours to get her. We could have gotten on a waiting list, but we chose to drive a long way for a puppy that was available.

One general warning -- if anyone is thinking of buying a cavalier from anyone who has the word 'Celtic', 'Shamrock', or 'Irish' in their Kennel name or the name of their business, or who has little shamrocks or leprechaun figures on their webpage, or who claims their relative in Ireland breeds so they can import at lower cost, or that their dogs come from 'champion Irish and English lines', run, as fast as possible.

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Thank you Karlin. I'm not sure this was sorta directed to me to read, but I did. I know that I had asked you a question a while back and this basically answers that. I really want to thank you for all that hard work that you do with this site and educating us on so many things. I really wish i would have found this sooner and it seems that a lot of others would have also. i will just have to take what i know now and move on for the next time.

After reading all this, it is great to know that I am not alone. We all thought we did the proper research and, only after we have been immersed in cavalier ownership, did we learn from our mistakes. Unfortunately, I fear the people on this site are just a small minority of CKCS owners. Many I know are happy to have a family dog and won't learn anything from their mistakes. As I said, if the demand is there, these brokers will continue to operate.

In regards to training and the leash snap, your example of a cup in a cupboard is good for positive reinforcement. But, how does that work when the dog jumps up for food at the table or on a guest or even bites/nips a hand (I won't even mention the "humping" of my children despite the fact he is almost 2 and nuetered at 6 months)? I am curious to know how you show a dog that they are doing something wrong considering all the books I read and my trainer recommend the snap method.

Thanks for the advice.

Our trainer recommends a quick verbal correction "ah ah" and then giving a different command such as sit, stay, down, etc. You are correcting the inapproriate behavior and giving an appropriate action. This is a way of guiding your dog and showing disapproval at what you don't want and then giving them something to do that you do want.

:shock:

We took Audrey to a behavorist for some difficult behaviors mostly having to do with separation anxiety. But he said something to me that made lots of sense. He said, " She needs to learn that when she exhibits the behavior you want good things happen". Those good things being treats and praise. I am finding if I keep that in mind it helps me figure out what to do. Small example- If she barks to follow me out the door I tell her to sit, stay. She responds and gets treats and praise. Well, it is working even though it takes some patience. Audrey also at times jumps up at the table. She now has a bed close by. We started by giving her treats luring her to the bed. We worked on "go lie down"(on the bed). Now, if she begs at the table we say no, "go lie down" and do our best to ignore her. I am happy to say she almost always now goes to the bed and lies down. She then gets praise. Treats are no longer necessary. It takes a lot of patience and faith in the process but we are getting some results after hanging in there with it.

Cathy T said:

Our trainer recommends a quick verbal correction "ah ah" and then giving a different command such as sit, stay, down, etc. You are correcting the inapproriate behavior and giving an appropriate action. This is a way of guiding your dog and showing disapproval at what you don't want and then giving them something to do that you do want.

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That is the best thing I could've read. That's the perfect way to put it. I will definitely be using that method. Thanks!

Your Monty looks so much like our Melvin I couldn’t believe it. They must be of the same mix, although we have no clue what that is. When we got him at 9 weeks he looked like any other cavalier pup, but once he grew out it was obvious he was not. He is 42 pounds and stands almost 18 inches at the shoulder. A year later when we showed him to the people where we bought him (another long story), they gave us another pup for free (Mickey, the tricolor we also have). There must be some kind of Springer in him, but we don’t know for sure. Melvin is a great dog and companion, but very opposite of Mickey in his behavior in that he is extremely active, very playful, very expressive, and very vocal. He will play fetch like our golden retriever used to, and follow us around everywhere, being totally curious about everything, rather than just sit around and look pretty, which is what Mickey does. He will also watch TV very intently, and when the Animal Planet station is on he will growl and bark at anything with 4 legs, going around the back of the TV to look for them. He also does howl when we leave, and often howls even when we are home, over nothing. It lasts about 10 seconds, and we can’t stop him in the middle. He will just look up at you as if he’s really yelling at you. I saw in your post that someone else posted some pictures of similar looking dogs. Can you send me that link?

Barbara Nixon said:

Here's my little lad. all 35lbs of him and skinny , too.

He isn't from a puppy farm, but a throwback to the 50s. Someone in another cavalier group posted an old photo yesterday and the dogs in it looked like Monty. Someone guessed the line and it's that of monty's maternal grandmother: Sunninghill.

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Holy cow! They are VERY strikingly similar! Look like siblings to me!

wow they do look alike.. maybe yours could be a throwback as well loco4cocoa?

gadgetfreak said:

After reading all this, it is great to know that I am not alone. We all thought we did the proper research and, only after we have been immersed in cavalier ownership, did we learn from our mistakes. Unfortunately, I fear the people on this site are just a small minority of CKCS owners. Many I know are happy to have a family dog and won't learn anything from their mistakes. As I said, if the demand is there, these brokers will continue to operate.

In regards to training and the leash snap, your example of a cup in a cupboard is good for positive reinforcement. But, how does that work when the dog jumps up for food at the table or on a guest or even bites/nips a hand (I won't even mention the "humping" of my children despite the fact he is almost 2 and nuetered at 6 months)? I am curious to know how you show a dog that they are doing something wrong considering all the books I read and my trainer recommend the snap method.

Thanks for the advice.

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I am sure that there are more experts on the board than myself. I am also a lab owner, so I understand a big dog jumping at 65lbs. One thing we do our best with Riley is too read her signs. We try to prevent the bad behavior. So, when someone arrives we get her in a sit/stay. Sometimes the stay is not reliable but we are working on this. Before her front feet leave the ground, I am saying....ahh, ahh. Then I give her a sit command. If she doesn't sit, I ignore she is really getting this. We made mistakes so we are re-teaching.

I find you learn something with every dog ownership, just like kids!