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Unprovoked attack

Sounds to me like she is defending her territory. Also dogs that are not regularly around kids can have big problems with kids -- or just in particular situations. A baby in particular is a strange thing to many dogs, makes strange noises and is very unpredictable and small.

I think this situation really requires a professional trainer for evaluation and advice. I know Tara and Lisa are really busy at the moment but they might have time to respond to this thread later in the week.

I would sure not find it acceptable to allow another dog to growl and pin other visiting dogs. But I would agree that the dog should be kept away (crated, penned, placed in a room) when a baby visits if these are one-off visits. It sounds very stressful to the dog to have a baby around.

Re pain: Pain is a possible reason for a dog to snap but it is not the most frequent reason. The most frequent reason is simply that the dog is uncomfortable with something happening around or to it, and people do not notice or know how to read the dog's stress signals. Given that children are bitten far more than adults, but adults certainly spend far more time with dogs, it is pretty safe to say that kids' very behaviour is more likely to induce bites because kids do things dogs don't like.
 
Judy,

My two like a cuddle as well. Maxx sulks all day if I don't sit at the top of the stairs with him in the morning and give him a cuddle :lol: He cuddles right into me, moans and groans with pleasure as I am rubbing the inside of his cheeks and kisses me all over my nose :lol:

Charlie also gets up on our laps and puts his paws round our necks and then smothers us in kisses. He's taken a particular fancy to my friend's 8 yr old son and every time Oliver visits Charlie follows him around until he sits down then jumps on his lap and goes to sleep!

Maxx on the other hand isn't keen on kids at all. He has never growled or shown any signs of aggression but would rather stay away from them. I always tell kids to leave him alone once they have greeted each other and if they won't leave him on his bed I put him upstairs in my bedroom.

Alison, I do wonder whether that person actually follows up any training with the dog. I was there that day the dog went a bit potty & had a lunge and went for one of yours in the garden if you remember and she just stood there and did nothing. It was definitely unprovoked and came from nowhere. The dog showed no signs it was going to attack, it just did.

Your dogs are so passive too, they have always welcomed other dogs into the home and are wonderful visitors as well. I've never had a problem with any of them - except that you won't let me keep Whitney ;)

Look how good they all were with Baby Billy the other day. The only chastisement of him came from Maxx when Billy pulled his ears & then it was just a little warning followed by a nuzzle and lots of licks from him!
 
I did think myself that she had a much bigger problem which should be seen by someone with more knowledge...that didn't go down very well at all when I tried to gently mention it, after all her cousin IS the dog trainer, who runs the classes and has her own club... EEks!... icon_whistling
I will not visit again because of this, the last time I went with gentle, soppy Whitney the dog went for her as well :( :( :(

The baby now just 1yr WILL be visiting more often, and sometimes left to be minded/babysitting etc...(a new family member)

It's such a shame,

Alison, Wilts, U.K.
 
:yikes :yikes :yikes I'm sorry but I wouldn't let any child anywhere near that dog.

Poor little Whitney, I'll bet she was terrified :( she's such a little love bug. I can't imagine her having a cross word with anyone - dog or human. It makes me laugh the way her and Maxx greet each other. All waggy tails and kisses - I swear if they hadn't both been fixed we'd be grannies by now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Maxxs_Mummy said:
:yikes :yikes :yikes I'm sorry but I wouldn't let any child anywhere near that dog.

Poor little Whitney, I'll bet she was terrified :( she's such a little love bug. I can't imagine her having a cross word with anyone - dog or human. It makes me laugh the way her and Maxx greet each other. All waggy tails and kisses - I swear if they hadn't both been fixed we'd be grannies by now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

I bet you woud too judging from the pics you have from Whits on her holidays! Watch out Alison - Donna may gets maxx's snip reversed! :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin: :badgrin:
 
One thing about cavaliers that hug -- :) -- Jaspar is one of these. Some seem to have an actual genetic element that makes them like doing this. A breeder once said some have the hugging gene, some the licking gene. Jaspar hugs and likes just a few licks. Leo and Lily don't hug but will lick your face off. :lol:

The key thing though is that in these cases, the DOG initiates the interaction. That indicates the dog is comfortable with this. I'd also feel comfortable with a dog that comes over and licks the face of a child it *knows well*. I would not feel comfortable at any time with a child giving hugs to a dog, especially a dog it doesn't know. Or approaching a small dog on a lap, as this is the classic position from which a dog potentially will get defensive -- even with people it knows.

(y)
 
Karlin said:
One thing about cavaliers that hug -- :) -- Jaspar is one of these. Some seem to have an actual genetic element that makes them like doing this. A breeder once said some have the hugging gene, some the licking gene. Jaspar hugs and likes just a few licks. Leo and Lily don't hug but will lick your face off. :lol:
Click to expand...

I think my two must have both genes, they are both serious huggers and lickers! ( lovely except when you know what they have been licking 5 mins beforehand :grnyuk: )
 
Chloe's a licker once she gets down to it- ie, when she's still enough to bother with it! Holly is a chronic licker, and a shoulder snuggler when she thinks something nasty is gonna happen- like going to bed :badgrin: :badgrin:
 
How about after he's been eating a bully stick donna? That one post ruined me.. .. :grnyuk:
 
I agree with Karlin about how interaction between kids and dogs needs to be carefully supervised. Children AND adults need to learn how to understand the messages dogs communicate.

Willow, our mill rescue, does NOT like anything over her head. When she first came to us, she allowed us to carry her, though she didnt much like it. She told me so by stiffening her whole body when she was picked up. She went stiff as a board; her muscles would get tense under my hands. If you went to cuddle her if she was sitting in your lap, she would get up and move so that she was no longer beneath you. She did not want anything over her head.

While Willow's behavior has relaxed as she becomes more comfortable, and her reactions can be attributed to her previous life, it does remind me that all dogs have to LEARN behaviors such as hugging (human style). As pups, they are hugged and find that people like hugs. Hugs are often accompanied with pleasurable things, like petting and treats. So from early on, the dog learns that the human-hugs lead to things dogs like.

This training only works if the hugs DO lead to positive things. Hugs from kids aren't always positive. Sometimes they can be painful, and they can be offensive if the dog has not learned the child outranks it within the family. The hug goes against the general nature of the dog, so combine that resistance to the above issues, and kids and dogs have problems.

The dog might not like the adult hugging it either, but puts up with it because the adult outranks the dog. The dog might even LIKE human-hugs with adults because the positive rewards come from the adults (the petting, the treats, etc.) Often, kids dash in, squeeze-hug the dog, and jet off, as is the nature of a child's attention and interest. These experiences are not the warm, comforting experiences a dog gets from sitting on an adults lap for a long time, being petted a coddled.

If a dog snaps quickly after growling, it has already probably learned that other messages are not heard. If the child has access to the dog unsupervised, how can you know how many times the dog has growled at the child and the child ignored it? If a growl is constantly ignored, the dog will try another message. Just like a parent says no calmly, but then raises his/her voice when the child continues misbehaving. For a dog, a snap is another warning sign (raised voice). Snaps get a lot of reaction. They are heard by people.

What an owner may consider a punishment for the dog--separating the dog from everyone-- could really be a blessing for the dog-- i.e. "Thank goodness mom got the girl away from me! She finally heard me!" Such a reaction will actually lead to more snapping, as the dog learns that snapping or biting is the message that gets the desired response. The dogs perspective can be quite different from ours.

Hopefully, once an owner realizes that the dog isnt being heard, the owner can step in and keep the dog from feeling threatened. Teaching adults and children to recognize the different messages, like growling, are serious messages will keep the dog from having to raise the level of its message.
 
Estelle - I thought Charlie was all better now, what is still ailing him, what did the vet say......
 
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