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Thread: SM & poo'ing symptoms?

  1. #1
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    Default SM & poo'ing symptoms?

    Bentley has not been diagnosed, but I have my suspicions about SM with him...

    my question; Have any of you with SM positive dogs noticed a correlation between an increase in scratching, restlessness and symptoms in general when your dogs have to poo?

    I've noticed with Bentley that when he needs to poo he has been scratching a lot and is very restless. Once he poos he is able to relax and scratching stops.

    He scratches predominately on his right side... his right hind leg tries to scratch the floor. He is trying for his right neck, shoulder, ear, because sometimes he reaches that area, however, mostly he is pounding at the floor with his hind right leg.

    I would appreciate any thoughts. I am compiling information for when I talk with his vet about this. I don't want to be at all vague and uncertain when I speak with her; I'm compiling printouts and journaling what I notice is odd. I've tried getting video but that is proving difficult.
    ~not knowing how near the truth is,
    we seek it far away~

  2. #2
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    I used to wonder the very same thing, in the end I put it down to the SM "nerve sensations" in the bottom area when a poo was needed. like you say when the job got done the sensations stopped or de-creased.

    Urination also became more frequent and erratic with little wee accidents when the SM was severe, as if they didn't know they had been.

    Perhaps the position of a possible spinal syrinx has something to do with the nerve endings in that area causing increased sensations like you have noticed.

    Alison.

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    It definitely can be associated with bowel movements and urination. This is a common symptom for humans with SM too -- because when you strain, it increases the pain (hence sneezing can be really painful for people with Chiari malformation and/or SM). Scratching is a response to pain and discomfort in the syrinx area usually, so the pressure from straining would cause that area to become more uncomfortable. Loss of bowel and bladder control is also a human symptom of SM.

    The air scratching, and scratching to one side (the side the syrinx presses on most) are also possible signs -- air scratching where the foot never makes contact with the skin, in particular.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin
    It definitely can be associated with bowel movements and urination. This is a common symptom for humans with SM too -- because when you strain, it increases the pain (hence sneezing can be really painful for people with Chiari malformation and/or SM). Scratching is a response to pain and discomfort in the syrinx area usually, so the pressure from straining would cause that area to become more uncomfortable. Loss of bowel and bladder control is also a human symptom of SM.

    The air scratching, and scratching to one side (the side the syrinx presses on most) are also possible signs -- air scratching where the foot never makes contact with the skin, in particular.
    He doesn't seem bothered when actually going.. it's the 15-20 minutes prior to poo'ing that seems most bothersome to him. I was just able to make the connection this weekend.... that for those minutes before going he is uncomfortable.

    Could the pressure of him having to go cause the discomfort, too? Or is it the actual physical act of going that would be uncomfortable? Or, maybe both things?

    I'm sorry, I'm feeling dense today!
    ~not knowing how near the truth is,
    we seek it far away~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison_Leighfield
    I used to wonder the very same thing, in the end I put it down to the SM "nerve sensations" in the bottom area when a poo was needed. like you say when the job got done the sensations stopped or de-creased.

    Urination also became more frequent and erratic with little wee accidents when the SM was severe, as if they didn't know they had been.

    Perhaps the position of a possible spinal syrinx has something to do with the nerve endings in that area causing increased sensations like you have noticed.

    Alison.
    I'm thinking I have to make this dreaded vet appt. I was so hoping I wouldn't need to, but these symptoms have appeared in the last week. Whatever is going on needs to be addressed.



    Can weather changes or extremes affect them as well? Our weather is very, very cold... this morning it was below 0 farenheit, with fluctuations in barometric pressure to go along with the changes.
    ~not knowing how near the truth is,
    we seek it far away~

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    I'm so sorry to hear about your concerns for your wee fellow

    you are doing the right thing in recording his symptoms, that will be helpful for your vet - also print off the information from Karlin's SM site and take that with you.

    It's horrid to think that our precious baby may have this dreadful disease, but better to get them checked over, and try to rule out any other possible causes - and then you can start treatment if necessary too.

    We do notice that weather changes aggravate symptoms - it's the change in pressure as much as the actual weather, although windy conditions seem to aggravate.

    Rupert also has focal seizures with his CM/SM, and these are worse in cold weather.

    I would think that the pressure of the faeces in the bowel could make the sensations worse, which would explain the scratching prior to a bowel movement.

    thinking of you and darling Bentley
    Nicki and the Cavalier Clan Our photos www.scotlandimagery.com
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    Just a quick thought - get your vet to check his anal glands too, as if they are swollen this can be very painful.

    Our vet checked this before he considered a prolapsed disc or SM as he said that the pain can sometimes be so severe it can cause what he considered similar symptoms.

    I hope he's feeling better soon

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