Good to know Cathy Thanks for the info
Good to know Cathy Thanks for the info
Jasmine, mommy to Ellie (tri girl), Griffin, Hunter, & Dexter (kitties)
Ellie is here!!!!
I heard today that she did recently get a couple of girls in whelp out of there so that is good.
Rescuing dogs by buying them out of puppy mills remains a controversial rescue activity in the eyes of many people.
Many feel this only supports a bad system, gives more money to the millers, and is little different from buying puppies from a pet store, which most in rescue will say never to do as that too supports the whole puppy mill industry.
Others feel getting dogs out of those dire breeding situations is worthwhile. Certainly, many if not most of the puppies sold at such auctions, mostly to other millers, go right back into the mill system themselves and will be caged/kennelled full time and used for breeding.
This is an issue people need to decide for themselves. I support selected rescues that buy dogs from auction, such as Lucky Star; I also would, given the opportunity, pay a small amount to get dogs out of puppy farm/mill situations here myself if that situation arose (we don't have those big auctions in Ireland). But I personally would not use my rescue funds to buy dogs from puppy farmers as a norm nor would I see it as a good use of the small amount of funds I have, as I'd be able to do very little then.
Personally, I do not know whether it is morally better to take out breeding dogs than puppies, except from the perspective that one has already suffered, and the other is likely to suffer in just the same way.
I've found most of the rescues that buy dogs out of mill situations do so with the best interests of the dogs in mind and are not doing it for profit. Even if selling the dogs rescued generates a profit -- who cares? I would say, it SHOULD -- because the dogs still cost far less for the adopter than buying a puppy and a rescue needs ongoing funds to operate. The average cost for a Lucky Star rescue is, last I checked, about $800. That is pretty cheap for a US cavalier.
Cavaliers: Jaspar Tansy : Mindy Connie Roxy Neasa
In memory: Lucy Leo Lily Libby
There is a "rescue" here in Michigan that does it to make a living! They are buying mill puppies wholesale and selling at double to the unsuspecting public. We've requested petfinder to take them off, to no avail so petfinder.com is provding their retail outlet. I find this disgusting.
From the Freedom Rescue website:
Who We Are
Thank you for contacting Freedom Rescue (FR). Our goal is to adopt a rescue dog into a safe and loving home where it will be treated as part of the family. If you want to obtain a pet quickly, then FR is not the right place to look. We are a very small rescue and obtain our puppies/dogs when we attend dog auctions which may be 5-6 times yearly. These auctions primarily sell dogs into puppy mills for commercial breeding. We get them out and give them freedom to be dogs. We keep approved adoption applications on file and when a rescue becomes available, you are notified.
If they're keeping puppies from being sold to other puppy mills, isn't that a good thing?
"My dog's not spoiled ... I'm just well trained."
The goal of a mill is to sell puppies. They just succeeded, no matter who bought them. No rescue can buy all the puppies and eliminate mills, so who did this benefit? the mill Also, they will produce MORE puppies to meet demand and now you've got more and more mill puppies around , which are likely to have some kind of health problem.
I agree with Karlin. There are pluses and minuses to buying from auctions and each person needs to make up his or her own mind how to respond. I do think that in the United States we need to be very careful when we are dealing with so-called "rescue" groups to make certain they are not in fact brokers for puppy millers. I have not done any independent research but I understand some millers take puppies they have not been able to sell (for example, puppies with hernias or patella problems) and "place" then with "rescue" groups they "sponsor" in an attempt to get "something" out of the puppy. The mere fact that a group has 501(c)(3) status is no guarantee they are legitimate. Ask lots of questions and ask groups you know are legitimate what they know about the group with the puppy you are considering.
Personally, I am convinced there is a market being created for "rescue" puppies fueled by the ease of the internet and well-intentioned tools like PetFinder. This is not intended as a criticism of anyone who has taken home a puppy saved from an auction, but I honestly believe this just encourages the millers. I also am concerned that for some (not all) adopting a "rescue" puppy seems like an affordable way to get a Cavalier and "rescue" is sort of "in" right now (not just with Cavaliers but generally). Not all rescue groups do a good job of screening and sometimes even those who attempt to do thorough screenings will be wrong. Down the road some of these puppies will again be in rescue as adults when their health problems become too great a burden.
Before you decide to get a rescue puppy, weigh the pros and cons, in the context of your own lifestyle and the reasons you want a Cavalier, of adopting a puppy from a "rescue" group versus working with a truly reputable breeder who follows the recommended health protocols and will be there for you for the life of your dog. If you decide to rescue, work with legitimate groups who take the time to screen folks before placement and are honest enough to warn you about the health and other risks of rescue. If you can afford to do so, consider taking a puppy with significant health problems which you make certain are treated. Most of all consider rescuing an adult or even a senior, not a puppy, since they are much harder to place. My own personal decision is that when I am in a position to do so I will adopt an adult with special needs but if we want a puppy we will go through a reputable breeder.
The puppy mill situation is such a Catch 22. We need to find a more universal solution to the problem but, unfortunately, I do not think that will happen anytime soon.
For those who made it through my epistle, thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
Phyllis in West Virginia USA with two Clumbers and a Cavalier Named Buddy
Phyllis - You've said it all so eloquently!! So many people look at rescue as a way to get a cheap Cavalier. Doesn't happen that way!! I can't tell you how many applications I get from people wanting to "rescue" a blenheim female, under the age of 1 with no health issues. That's not rescue!! If this is what you are looking for.....go to a breeder do not come to rescue! The person who is going to get my attention is the person who says I will take whatever comes in. I want to rescue because I want to help save a dog who otherwise will not find a home. I had an application from someone who honestly rescues for all of the right reasons. It was such a pleasure to deal with her.I also am concerned that for some (not all) adopting a "rescue" puppy seems like an affordable way to get a Cavalier and "rescue" is sort of "in" right now (not just with Cavaliers but generally). Not all rescue groups do a good job of screening and sometimes even those who attempt to do thorough screenings will be wrong. Down the road some of these puppies will again be in rescue as adults when their health problems become too great a burden.
Before you decide to get a rescue puppy, weigh the pros and cons, in the context of your own lifestyle and the reasons you want a Cavalier, of adopting a puppy from a "rescue" group versus working with a truly reputable breeder who follows the recommended health protocols and will be there for you for the life of your dog. If you decide to rescue, work with legitimate groups who take the time to screen folks before placement and are honest enough to warn you about the health and other risks of rescue. If you can afford to do so, consider taking a puppy with significant health problems which you make certain are treated. Most of all consider rescuing an adult or even a senior, not a puppy, since they are much harder to place
I know of someone (I won't name names) who fosters those in dire situations....my respect for that person is sky-high!!! That is a huge commitment.
Loving mom to Jake, Shelby and Micah
Perhaps by visiting the following link there is something we can do. Pennsylvania has pending legislation that is due for a vote on the 16th of March. Signatures will be submitted today!! People from all over the world are trying to get the change "minimum" standards implemented in the licensed kennels in that state. Most will agree, one state at a time and we can make a difference. Please visit this sight and send your signature in favor of better regulating the mills. Although we won't be able to shut the mills down at this time, perhaps we can at least lessen the misery. Take a minute to browse this site - it will make you sad and angry!
I have been very lucky to deal with many -- especially, many of you Irish/UK folks on this site -- who have welcomed in for foster or adoption, older rescue dogs, rescue dogs with health issues, maltreated dogs... many look for rescues for all the right reasons. But I get an exasperating number of applications that say they want a puppy and can they come view my available dogs. They clearly haven't read even the first brief welcome page of my rescue site nor the brief bit of info on my listing in breed rescue on Irishanimals.com or they'd know I don't have puppies and maintain a waiting list. The ones that ask for a rescue 'without any health problems' just get deleted from my list. No dog from any source could come with such a guarantee and if this is an upfront issue for taking a dog of unknown origin -- then they have the wrong ideas about rescue from the very start.
I agree too that taking a rescue may mean large health issue costs lie ahead and should NEVER be seen as a bargain basement way of getting a dog.
But I also think rescue comes down to putting effort into helping individual dogs and that for most, it doesn;t matter where they came from. Keep in mind that most rescue dogs handed in to breed rescue, found at pounds or shelters, etc, are simply mill/BYB cavaliers that someone ELSE paid for from a BYB or internet site or pet store and hence a mill (very few pet cavaliers came from reputable breeders -- they simply do not produce the volume of dogs and few who have spent $2000 on a dog are going to leave it at the pound). So what is the difference between helping the individual dog when it is one further step away from the mill/BYB, or buying it directly out of that situation if this is where someone wants to focus their rescue efforts? Especiually when one KNOWS the dog in the mill situation will continue to suffer -- whereas the cavalier in rescue can almost always be easily placed, unless it is old or has a serious/costly health problem. Those that do rescue buying at auction are a tiny drop in the ocean of millers buying dogs at auction and hardly have much real effect on supporting mills. So while I would not choose to focus my small funds and time in that direction of rescue, I don't have problems with legit groups who rescue in this way.
I actually have a much bigger issue with the 'poster dogs' that some in national breed rescue will solicit huge amounts of funding for -- thousands of dollars 'needed' for surgery to restore the sight of a rescue cavalier recently, for example. Blind dogs (and cats) actually do very well as anyone who has one will know, and it really irks me to see rescue raise thousands for a dog they will then rehome without recuperating any of the medical costs, and I suspect, probably to someone they know as there always tends to be a huge amount of interest in homing a dog with lots of drama surrounding it, as the rescues who do television slots can testify (people will all want the three legged fetured dog but not the 200 four-legged other dogs in equal need). Those thousands could save many, many other dogs, provide kennelling fees for dogs some breed rescues currently acknowledge they cannot afford to transport or kennel from kill shelters, go towards national lobbying on mills, or to badly needed health research, any of a number of areas.
Cavaliers: Jaspar Tansy : Mindy Connie Roxy Neasa
In memory: Lucy Leo Lily Libby