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Thread: Well this beats all...

  1. #1
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    Default Well this beats all...

    A fairly well known cavalier breeder offers this helpful information on SM on her website:

    Implications in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels

    "I have a Cavalier, should I be concerned"?

    This particular condition is known to affect less than 0.002% of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels so odds are very much in your favour that your dog would not have this condition.
    How extraordinary -- when every research group in this area has stated a minimum of close to 40% of all breed samples are affected *with actual syrinxes*.

    Perhaps she defines 'affected' in a different way than the entire research community? The words 'head' and 'sand' come to mind.

    I don't think there's a club left that believes the level of affectedness is this low.

    This reminds me of the sites that still claim no MVD in their colours or lines. I had hoped show breeders had moved beyond this kind of claim.

    Conclusion: if you are buying a puppy be sure to talk to your chosen breeder about this health issue and make sure you are dealing with someone who doesn't pretend like it isn't a concern. It is, as is very clear from the openness of reputable breeders to discuss it just as they discuss MVD. The chances remain low of seeing a symptomatic dog but all good breeders recognise that SM is a serious problem and that the goal must be to keep the number of symptomatic cases as low as possible.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  2. #2
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    that is mad! How can people describe something as serious as SM like they did on that website!
    Mom to freddie 1 yr old (blen), baxter 1 yr old (ruby) and molly 3yr old (tri)

  3. #3
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    Ok ---so if 2% was 1 in 50
    .2% is 1 in 500
    .02% is 1 in 5000
    .002% is 1 in 50000 ???? Can you pm me this website please? thanks, Sandy

  4. #4
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    What!?!?

    I'd be interested in seeing this site, can you PM me the address, please?
    Jen, Abbey (Tri Cavalier) & Gus (White Min. Schnauzer)

  5. #5
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    Pmd you both.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  6. #6
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    Perhap's it was a typo with the decimel. Either way I am sure breeder to breeder if they are showing together, it will get all straightened out (assuming they are on the same show circuits).
    Edit: as well the website page hasnt been updated since 2000 so is it possible recent research would be possible for the discretion in %?
    Last edited by Kodee; 27th April 2007 at 06:14 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    This reminds me of the sites that still claim no MVD in their colours or lines. I had hoped show breeders had moved beyond this kind of claim.
    My brother works in a large park in London and every time he sees a Cavalier he always tells me about the dog. He got talking to a lady one day who had a elderly ruby. He knows all about the health issues with Cavaliers, because of SiĆ¢nE. So this lady tells him that not only does her dog not have MVD but Ruby cavaliers unlike the other colours don't suffer from it.

    This was only last summer
    Davy, SiānE&Ella
    & sometimes Cassie the cocker AKA 'the black shadow''

    ~Blind Dogs See With Their Hearts♥~
    My cavalier not spoilt...I'm just well trained!

  8. #8
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    Oh, I think it is this breeder's opinion, not a typo or an out of date article that has been forgotten. The article is somewhat misleading in other ways: yes, weimeraners get SM, but it is due to entirely different causes -- the equivalent of spinal bifida in humans, and is a completely different, well defined breed genetic problem for weimeraners and a few other breeds. This is mentioned as one cause of SM at the article's start but this clarification isn't made. Oddly, her percentage doesn't even fit into the percentage reported in the ACKCSC's own breed health survey, which reported a small number than research samples for obvious reasons (people do not tend to scan their dogs) but a high enough level for the prof of vet medicine who compiled the report to express deep concern.

    This site has definitely been updated since 2000 because some of the information contained in the article was not available until the past couple of years and one site referred to was only set up in the past couple of years.

    This breeder is also on lists that I frequent and would be familiar with ongoing studies. So it seems to be a personal choice to post this figure.

    Breeder to breeder, the discussion sometimes, sadly, is how best to ignore the information coming out in the studies and to reassure puppy buyers that there is nothing to worry about. It's one reason I think breeders who are open about this condition and working as best they can to address it are very important to recognise and indeed, courageous. There has been a lot of opposition to the various researchers and a reluctance to make information available at club level. The UK Club has been an exception in having articles available from early on.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    Pmd you both.
    Thanks-- I've been to that website before and I don't remember those stats being there.

  10. #10
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    The article is actually kind of hard to find. There isn't anything on SM listed on the health page and I wasn;t looking for SM info (I was actually looking for cherry eye info for another health post) but then I saw the link to 'articles' and was just interested to see what was there. I am wondering where that tiny figure came from -- I don't even remember it ever being believed to be so small once enough was known to identify it as a possible breed issue.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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