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Thread: Should I change my mind?Your advice would be great please.

  1. #1
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    Default Should I change my mind?Your advice would be great please.

    I seem to have quite quickly stopped Dylan marking in the house. I may be speaking too soon but he hasn't done it in a couple of days and is asking to go out more. I'm wondering if I should wait until Dylan is older before I get him neutered.

    I have heard many times it's good to wait until dogs are one year old and I don't know why. I have heard the scull continues to grow and a dog look more like a boy later. I wonder if this would be beneficial with regards to SM.

    I really don't want to make mistakes and regret them so I would really appreciate you taking to time to share your knowledge with me.

    Thank you xx
    ....
    Dylan, Poppy & Kipling's
    *''' ' "*Mummy`` "*'
    ,'*" "*'

  2. #2
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    Personally I don't intend having my boys neutered. I don't see much benefit to it & don't like the fluffy coat they get after.

    Regarding growth . Hormones regulate growth , Dogs neutered very young will never really stop growing So the bones in their limbs will grow longer & not in proportion to each other which can lead to joint problems. & as you say the skull will be narrower in dogs neutered very young ( wether this has any affect on sm? I dont know )

    A relatives cav girl was neutered at 5 months & now has bad hip displacia. maybe a coincidence but enough to make me think twice about early neutering of any girls I have in future

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    Some like to wait til a year old so that bone growth has ceased. On the flip side, millions of dogs are regularly neutered/spayed at 6 months or so. My boys look like boys and were neutered at 8 and 9 months. You might get a more jowly head by waiting but the skull shape isn't going to change, Personally I don't like the really jowly head all that much anyway.

    I woud neuter when it is convenient to you; if you want to manage Dylan for several more months before neutering then that;s no big issue but a lot of male owners tend to find this a hassle. I didn't want to wait til one year -- marking inside was never an issue with either Jaspar or Leo, but males get very stinky pee (that had already started and their feathering would get wet when they peed and they smelled) and do a lot of humping, and I was more worried about them trying to escape if they smelled a female in heat -- they can easily scale a wall if they are determined. Unneutered males account for about 70% of dogs in Irish pounds when I was doing general rescue and I am sure the proportion is similar in the UK. Often stray males are picked up by wardens following around a female they clearly scented and pursued. Males will bolt if off lead and they smell a female. People consistently underestimate the call of nature in this regard and a lot of male dogs end up in traffic accidents or lost because they bolted after a female. My general rescue experience mde me very disinclined to wait a year before neutering, but that is me.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  4. #4
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    I don't intend to neuter either of mine, I'm tempted to take up showing them so they need their bits!
    Kirsty
    Merlin and Oakleys Mum (Merlin -Male/B&T/5 years, Oakley - Male/Ruby/3.5years)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    I didn't want to wait til one year -- marking inside was never an issue with either Jaspar or Leo, but males get very stinky pee (that had already started and their feathering would get wet when they peed and they smelled) and do a lot of humping,.

    Yes i've discovered this joy with my current boy , lol

    my last dog ( my avatar) never lifted his leg ( I think he had a back or hip problem ) & he had to be neutered when I got him because of a tumor.

    so my current boys manly odour was a a suprise ,lol I've discovered clipping his tummy & rubbing baby oil onto the coat that gets stained ( after being washed ) stops him getting too stinky.

    He peed on my foot when he was about a year old but apart from that I havent had a problem with marking inapropriately

    My sisters dog was neutered to stop him fighting & humping.( after listening to all the advice on the benefits of neutering )
    Now dissapointingly he's exactly the same behaviour but half bald with blonde fluffy bits.

    He went through a house marking phase at about 10 months ( before neutering )but was trained not to
    Last edited by AT; 21st June 2007 at 02:56 PM.

  6. #6
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    These are some important and interesting issues... It isn't true that bones never stop growing in neutered dogs. They stop growing at the end of adolescence, regardless of whether an animal is neutered or not. Neutered animals may gain a very slight extra bit of height but it is pretty negligible -- an inch or shorter. Leo is very compact and cobby and it certainly cannot be said to have made him lanky! Both boys have totally normal, silky coats. I feel coat growth is more genetic or weight related than a neutering issue.

    Consider that if there were serious bone growth problems from neutering, then male castrated race horses should have terrible problems racing; higher incidence of hip and joint issues for example; but there's no evidence that geldings have greater problems than stallions and more race horses are geldings than stallions. I also have never read anywhere that the skulls themsleves end up narrower from neutering -- I could stand corrected on this but surely any additional skull growth due only to sex differences would be very minimal; most growth is cosmetic development (eg fleshy jowls). There is no evidence whatsoever that skull shape has anything to do with SM so neutering would have no significance at all -- and SM shows equally in neutered and intact dogs. Come to think of it, breeders who have put forward dogs to be screened -- intact dogs -- are seeing the same high ratios of the skull mlformation and syrinxes as in neutered pets. I'd say most scanned cavaliers are actually *intact* animals as many in the research programmes have been breeder dogs.

    There ARE health consequences to not neutering. Vets will tell you there's a significant incidence of prostate probems in unneutered males as they get older. For females, there's a very definite rise in the likelihood of mammary cancer simply by allowing a dog to go through one or two heats -- 0% chance if spayed before first heat, 7% risk if they go thru one heat, 25% risk if they go through two (in general rescue we regularly see older unspayed females with mammary tumours).

    While there are some health considerations to neutering as well (everyting is always a balance), there are very large health benefits to neutering, the key one as far as I'm concerned being (setting aside that most reputable breeders *require* pet quality dogs to be neutered in their homing contract) that unwanted puppies will not be born. Males are just as responsible for these as unspayed females yet I find a lot of owners of intact males do nothing to keep their dogs under careful control -- which is just as irresponsible as allowing a female dog in heat to run loose. Cavalier cross puppies are no easier to home than any other mix, and indeed, it can be difficult enough to home pure cavaliers. According to the UK CKCS Club puppy gazette, they have had an overabundance of puppies over the past year and some breeders are having difficulty in finding homes. What happens with those pups, I don't know.

    For some who own dogs that aren't on neuter contracts, spay/neuter is of course personal choice and responsible owners can definitely manage itntact dogs. But there are risks associated with not neutering that should not be underestimated and attendant responsibilities for managing intact dogs that many pet owners find onerous (or alternatively, simply ignore). The sad results of not neutering, from occasional directly related health problems to unwanted breeding, are something most rescue people see day in and out and is the primary reason why no one in rescue will home a dog or cat without a spay/neuter responsibility attached to the animal.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  7. #7
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    I guess you've just got to weigh up the pros & cons for your own situation. We intend keeping our 2 Cavaliers intact but because we live on acres we don't have the problems associated with neighbouring females. Our Scarlett is unlikely to ever have another season, but when she was younger our poor old Sam used to fret & cry, do crazy things and rip off the weight, so we ended up getting him neutered and he seemed to be a much more comfortable boy for it. I was worried about him putting weight on, but by watching his diet carefully he has remained lean, muscular & terrific.

    I guess one of the good things is that you have time on your side. Just because you might decide now that you do not wish to neuter, this does not mean to say that you can't do it later on if he becomes problematic.

    Like others have already said, it is important to understand the drive of both male & female if there is a bitch in heat around, so you'll need to consider whether your fences are secure and also be a bit mindful about off-leash walks.
    ~ Sam, Sonny & Beau ~

  8. #8
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    There is an article on this site about bone growth in neutered dogs & a search on google will bring up various research on early castration in dogs & other animals such as cattle ( & humans !)

    http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

    Its up to the individual to weigh up the pro's & cons & all the evidence & decide whats best for their own dogs & curcumstance.

    I have done a lot of rescue work I know the consequences of not neutering animals & if I was rehoming a rescue dog I would consider the risk of them ending up in a puppyfarm at some point to outweigh the affects of early neutering.

    I have had bitches with pyometra & tumors & a dog with a testicular tumor so I am not naive about the health issues for intact dogs

    Personally I was at one time for early speying of my girls as they recover from the op more quickly. Having learn't a bit more i've changed my opinion.

    But i've coped with unspeyed girls before ( In the days when I didnt agree with speying at all! ) So if I had a bitch puppy of my own I wouldn't have a problem with waiting a few extra months for her to mature before speying.

    My boy doesn't roam , doesn't pee in the house , His interest in girls doesn't bother me & I can just about cope with the piddly manly smell so I see no need to neuter him

    Other peoples circumstances may mean the benefits of early speying / castration outweigh the negatives
    Last edited by AT; 21st June 2007 at 04:12 PM.

  9. #9
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    I'm feeling like a bad mum because some of my issues are cosmetic. I must add that the health of Dylan is the most important thing to me.

    On the cosmetic side, I don't like long jowls, I didn't know this was affected by neutering until Karlin said. I don't actually know what cotton coat is like but Dylan has the most beautiful coat now, long and soft and it would be a shame to spoil that. I am reassured to hear that cotton coat may develop more due to weight. That actually makes more sense to me.

    Dylan is very slim, too slim actually, which is why his breeder encouraged me to get him done. She usually discourages neutering as she has seen too many fat Cavaliers and this is not good for their hearts. Last time Dylan was ill he lost a lot of weight and it would have been better if he'd had a normal amount of fat to start with.
    ....
    Dylan, Poppy & Kipling's
    *''' ' "*Mummy`` "*'
    ,'*" "*'

  10. #10
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    Pauline, take your time. Unlike with a bitch, there is no benefit from earlier action and you can't put back what you take away.
    Barbara, Monty, Joly and Teddy.

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