• If you're a past member of the board, but can't recall your password any more, you don't need to set up a new account (unless you wish to). As long as you recall your old login name, you can log in with that user name then select 'forgot password' and the board will email you at your registration email, to let you reset your password.

Our baby girl... is born!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brika

Member
Hello everyone. I'm Brika. I'm here because we just bought a new cav! We're thrilled... and worried too. We have been researching Cav's for a year now, and we're delighted to add one to our family, but I'm hoping we didn't make a mistake by buying from the breeder that we did.

She's from Iowa and sounds great. We found her online, which I see now is a no no. Too late, I sent deposit. Puppies were born last Saturday the 7th. We can pick her up at 7 weeks if all goes well. I'm hoping that this is a reputable breeder... but I'm worried because she doesn't register with AKC... she uses APR and ACA? I've now read they are scam registries. Now we're not going to breed or show... we just want an indoor snuggle pet. (we now have two chocolate labs, one bunny, and one cat!) I do child care and we are home all day and everthing I've read about Cavs says they love to be on your lap and loved... that's what I want.

More on the breeder... she's had two litters with her momma. This is her 2nd. The momma had 8 pups... 6 girls 2 boys all blenheims. We are 5th on the list to choose from the girls.

We will be driving to pick her up, she does ship but prefers to have you pick up. She doesn't sell to pet stores. She doesn't show her dogs, but breeds three other breeds as well. She says her husband is a neat freak and lysols daily, she decorates for Christmas in their kennels, etc. She wouldn't let me make a deposit until she'd spoken with both myself and my husband on the phone... she says she wants to be sure that her dogs are placed with loving families.

The price was much cheaper than anyone else we've checked with... that worried me too, but she assured me that she does want to make money but isn't in it FOR the money.

So, we've sent our deposit and are cautiously hopeful that all is well.

We're very excited!

What is your advice on our transaction?


... OH, she does have an exam that she'll have done before we pick her up... some exam she says she does before they can cross state lines? 50$ extra.



What should I look out for? What books do you reccommend as far as puppy training? What products are a must have and what products are FUN?

Thanks so much! We're excited to be here!
 
I know you will feel a strong attachment and a lot of excitement now and won;t want to hear this, but please: ask for your deposit back and use a reputable health focused breeder. Your lower cost dog is very likely going to cost you more long term in health issues and you also won't be supporting someone who obviously cares very little about this breed. This woman is most likely either a backyard breeder, a broker for puppy mill dogs, or a puppy miller pretending to only sell cavaliers. None of these is someone you want to go near. Many of our board members have experienced terrible heartbreak in getting sickly puppies from such people.

The sham registries are there not for producing good health pet quality puppies as an alternative to the real registries but because shoddy breeders cannot get the better quality dogs to breed and also fully intend to dupe unwary buyers into thinking these meaningless registries actually confer some kind of quality mark and health guarantee on the dog. They don't -- just the opposite. These registries only exist to make money off the shoddy breeders. Which they do. But their 'registration' means absolutely nothing.

People here will be happy to help you find a better breeder.

Also please consider that this is a breed that is prone to some potentially costly health issues. If a few hundred dollars matter a lot in purchasing cost, have you considered how to manage potentially large vet costs? For any dog this is always a central consideration but especially so with a purebred -- you need to pick an excellent health focused breeder and need to be able to manage possible health costs/insure the dog.

The Library section has some really good links about what to consider when finding a dog, what to ask the breeder as a minimu, what health certs to be shown, health issues, etc. Sounds like you are getting some good reading done now and I'd be sure to have a good look over all that material.

(y)
 
Karlin,

thanks for your reply. I appreciate your advice. I'm just wondering if it's not a possiblity that this is a good breeder?

It seems that if she wants us to come pick up the puppy, doesn't sell to brokers or pet stores, etc. That she may be a good breeder who isn't interested in AKC registration.

I'm going now to read in the library some more questions and go from there. Hopefully I can decide what to do here.

I am excited and thrilled to be getting a new friend... but I do want to be careful. I appreciate your help!
 
The price was much cheaper than anyone else we've checked with... that worried me too, but she assured me that she does want to make money but isn't in it FOR the money.


I don't really get how those comments go together , if you want to make a profit you are in it for the money.

& whats decorating the kennels at xmas got to do with anything ? That makes me think she's trying too hard to prove she loves her dogs.
 
I don't really get how those comments go together , if you want to make a profit you are in it for the money.

& whats decorating the kennels at xmas got to do with anything ? That makes me think she's trying too hard to prove she loves her dogs.


She's a grandma who is retired... she was saying that she does it to make some money... but doesn't feel that charging 2000$ and up is realistic. I was paraphrasing for her.

The decorating thing was part of her story on how excited she was to have a litter born on 7-7-7... she was telling me all about her grandkids coming over to see the pups...and how at christmas they (the grandkids) love to help decorate the stockings in the kennel



I may be a fool here... but the lady really struck me as someone who simply loves her dogs. I can see that you've all had many others like me here ... buy a dog, without knowing where it came from... I understand that you all might feel that I'm irresponsible and naieve.

I just want a loyal pet and friend for my kids and child care kids. I'm not loooking for perfection, and these dogs need a home too. I'm hoping I'm not making a mistake.

I want to hear more about your concerns... but also do you think a bad breeder would want us to come to her home for pick up? would she not sell to pet stores or brokers? Would she still get a health exam before leaving out of state? If this really is a bad deal... how can I be sure? AND is there any way she'll give us back our deposit??

Thanks again!
 
Your lower cost dog is very likely going to cost you more long term in health issues and you also won't be supporting someone who obviously cares very little about this breed. This woman is most likely either a backyard breeder, a broker for puppy mill dogs, or a puppy miller pretending to only sell cavaliers. None of these is someone you want to go near. Many of our board members have experienced terrible heartbreak in getting sickly puppies from such people.

The sham registries are there not for producing good health pet quality puppies as an alternative to the real registries but because shoddy breeders cannot get the better quality dogs to breed and also fully intend to dupe unwary buyers into thinking these meaningless registries actually confer some kind of quality mark and health guarantee on the dog. They don't -- just the opposite. These registries only exist to make money off the shoddy breeders. Which they do. But their 'registration' means absolutely nothing.

People here will be happy to help you find a better breeder.

Also please consider that this is a breed that is prone to some potentially costly health issues. If a few hundred dollars matter a lot in purchasing cost, have you considered how to manage potentially large vet costs? For any dog this is always a central consideration but especially so with a purebred -- you need to pick an excellent health focused breeder and need to be able to manage possible health costs/insure the dog.

The Library section has some really good links about what to consider when finding a dog, what to ask the breeder as a minimu, what health certs to be shown, health issues, etc. Sounds like you are getting some good reading done now and I'd be sure to have a good look over all that material.

(y)


What is wrong with a backyard breeder? Can you explain? I also am wondering how this situation is for sure producing unhealhty dogs?
 
Not to ruin it either.But i have phoned at least 10 breeders in 8 months and hey guess what,i have heard all of that before.Plus she is breeding other dogs.Please you sound like a lovely lady,gentle and caring and she has proberley picked up on that,but ITS NOT WORTH IT.Do what has been suggested an pm one of the girls on site they will be of fantastic help.But then again you could be what the vet said to us DAM LUCKY.
 
We're thrilled... and worried too. We have been researching Cav's for a year now, and we're delighted to add one to our family, but I'm hoping we didn't make a mistake by buying from the breeder that we did.

We found her online, which I see now is a no no. Too late, I sent deposit.

I'm hoping that this is a reputable breeder... but I'm worried because she doesn't register with AKC... she uses APR and ACA? I've now read they are scam registries.

She doesn't show her dogs, but breeds three other breeds as well.

The price was much cheaper than anyone else we've checked with... that worried me too, but she assured me that she does want to make money but isn't in it FOR the money.

So, we've sent our deposit and are cautiously hopeful that all is well.

What is your advice on our transaction?

... OH, she does have an exam that she'll have done before we pick her up... some exam she says she does before they can cross state lines? 50$ extra.

What should I look out for?
Just based on these statements and questions you've written, I truly believe you are dealing with either a puppy mill or back yard breeder.
 
Yep me too,ALARM BELLS.I have learnt alot from this site,i have also learnt what questions to ask the breeders.please wait ,i know its hard,i would not go back to the lady i got alfs from,but we were lucky.Its not the money,its heartbreaking to see them sick.Only you can decide.
 
I find it very concerning that a breeder would let you have a puppy as young as 7 weeks. Most insist they are at least 9 weeks. Some won't let them go until 10-12 weeks.
 
This screams alarm bells too. You really haven't done your homework at all.

Buying a puppy you have never seen or been vetted by the breeder isn't at all recommended. She could be anybody and I don't like the fact she has promised you a pup without even meeting you and knowing your background and home setup.

You have no idea what conditions the puppies have been bred in and what their background is. Makes you wonder how many litters are produced and why they're not registered. I suspect they've a puppy mill background in one way or another. Have you asked her about whether the parents suffer heart conditions, SM and hernias?

Seriously, you've never met the puppy and little bond so I would pull out and get a refund ASAP and look for a breeder where you can visit beforehand and know what you're purchasing.
 
you can PM me if you want names of good breeders in your area. This lady has sucked you in , she does NOTHING that people who really care about HEALTH and THE BREED do. Also, someone like this, doesn't care what they look like and while almost all puppies are cute, this puppy make not even look much like a pretty grown up Cavalier. She may be healthy, but usually poorly bred Cavaliers are prone to knee problems at the very least. Tell her something has come up in your personal life and it isn't the right time to get a puppy, you don't know if it ever will, and see how nice she'll be about giving you a refund and caring about the puppy's placement. This lady should not be breeding, no one with a quality dog would ever sell her one or allow her to breed. Those registries are a sham, to fool the public. All you need is a picture to register a dog with them. She IS doing it for the money, don't kid yourself. She couldn't GET $2,000 for puppies of that quality. NO good breeder in the US places puppies at less than 10 weeks of age, the things they learn from their littermates make a lot of difference in getting a well socialized puppy with proper bite inhibition, ie , they'll practice biting you instead of their littermates who would teach them that if you bite hard, I won't play with you. They learn other good things as well. This lady probably has a ton of puppies of all breeds and probaby very little time to socialize them.
 
Last edited:
The best thing to do is take your time and learn the right way to buy a puppy. There is no reason to rush into it.

Please feel free to PM me to help you generate ideas for getting your deposit back. It may not be that difficult to get a refund.
 
Your instincts are probably right: this breeder is probably not a good one. She sounds like a backyard breeder. Backyard breeders do not have to be nasty, cruel people. She very well could be a lovely woman and she very well may think that she's doing a wonderful thing by breeding her dogs (as a retired hobbyist) and finding good homes for the pups. Loving dogs does not always equate to being a good dog owner; the same is true for breeders.

Even a well-meaning backyard breeder is one that you probably do not want to get a puppy from because you will run the probability of having health issues, and possibly behavioral issues down the line. Breeding healthy dogs that meet the expectations of the breed (including a cavalier's interest in being a snuggle baby) takes a great deal of knowledge about the dog's genetic line. It means knowing generations and generations of the dog's family and their long term health and temperament. This type of breeding requires lots of health tests for good hearts, good eyes, good knees, and good brains (Have you heard of SM?). All of these health tests are on the parents and grandparents of the pups, so that the breeder can breed the best dogs to get the best puppies. These are NOT necessarily show dogs; these are the basic snuggle pets you're interested in.

If you continue down the path you are on with this breeder, you will find yourself with a very cute little puppy at 7 weeks old. This dog will barely be weened, so its digestive tract could have issues. It will be very infantile and insecure, so you will face night after night of a crying puppy. It will not have had the necessary play time with its litter mates to learn appropriate socialization and bite inhibition skills. It will not have had time to learn from the older dogs in the home how to use the outside as a potty area, so you'll be looking at months of frustrating house-training. And this is with a HEALTHY puppy!

Health-wise, you could face general issues, such as basic infestations of worms, coccidia, and/or ear mites, which are all common problems with pups who have not had proper vet treatment. This vet treatment should be standard, not something you should have to pay extra for. What if you don't pay for it? The pup might not have ANY vaccinations or de-wormings, so you'll have a vulnerable and probably infested dog.

In the longer term, you could find that your dog has weak knees, which is a common probably with cavaliers. Luxating Patellas can cause pain and difficulty walking, and they require surgical repair. Such surgery can costs thousands of dollars. If you don't do the surgery, you can have a lame dog.

Another likely health problem you will face is Mitral Valve Disease, which is a congenital heart disease. Most cavaliers will face MVD in its lifetime. If you have a poorly breed dog, it could start to suffer heart failure while it is still quite young. Breeding could mean the difference of losing your dog after 7 years or 14.

Health issues are problematic, but you can also be dealing with behavior issues. Cavaliers, as a breed, are known for their loving, people-centered nature. This behavior is part of the breed. However, if your dog is not breed well with strong lines of these behaviors, your dog might NOT want to be a laptog. It might NOT be safe to have around kids. There's no way you will know until the dog is grown, unless you have a breeder who can vouch for the behavior of the parents, grandparents, and other extended lines of your dog.

There are other major concerns (read up on SM too!) for which good breeding can reduce the risk. With the dog you've mentioned, you will need to EXPECT these problems.

Everyone wants to get a lovely little puppy, and the less one has to pay the more economical it will be. However, sometimes the upfront costs can safe you money and heartache in the future. You're at a good place to learn a lot of information, and you still have time to make a choice that you feel is best for you and your family (as well as your business!!).

If you have any questions, I'm sure the board members will do what we can to answer them with your best interests at heart.
 
I find it very concerning that a breeder would let you have a puppy as young as 7 weeks. Most insist they are at least 9 weeks. Some won't let them go until 10-12 weeks.

I've heard from a great deal of experienced dog owners/trainers that give excellent advice that like to get their dog at seven weeks. In fact, my mum got her dog when he was seven weeks from a breeder that really cared for the breed; she did health checks, showed & rescued. I wouldn't say it is a bad thing at all & I am very glad I got my puppy at eight weeks rather than ten weeks as she learnt some very important lessons in manners at that young age that have stuck far better than those taught when she was over 10 weeks.

From what I know & have read, this person doesn't sound like a straight out "backyard breeder". She clearly shows some consideration as the puppies are not being sold when they are ready (she has found homes for her puppies first) & she's also questioning owners. The only flag raised, in my opinion, is that she is openly admitting that she would like to make money. But in all honesty, she wouldn't want to lose money on this, would she? I haven't read anywhere that there were no tests taken out on the parents, nor what age the dam is, so where are people getting to by saying she should be concerned with the puppies' health? A larger price for a dog does not mean the dog is healthier whatsoever so what is there to say that the smaller price tag is automatically a healthy dog. Many people breed dogs as solely pets & there is nothing wrong with that either. Yes the breeder has offered delivery of puppies, but many breeders do & she has said she prefers them to be collected.
 
Last edited:
Brika;209 091 said:
What is wrong with a backyard breeder? Can you explain? I also am wondering how this situation is for sure producing unhealhty dogs?

A backyard breeder is out to make money... They are producing a product to fulfill a demand for cheap puppies. A dog is a living being prone to a myriad of nasty diseases, a purebred dog has specific diseases they a predisposed to. To not do patella, heart, and eye exams (AT LEAST) by veterinary specialist is like playing russian roulette. YOU CAN GET LUCKY and not be hit with debilitating diseases. Because I love this breed, I volunteer with cavalier rescues. I'd say of the rescues I've had here at my house-- about 25-30% have luxating patellas. They can be expensive to fix and very hard on the dog to live with. One had a major behavior disorder.
Bottom line is I want my dog to live a good quality of life-- I wouldn't risk buying a dog from a breeder who didn't have a plan on how to make healthier, longer living, cavaliers that look, act and love like a cavalier. fwiw, Sandy
 
I've heard from a great deal of experienced dog owners/trainers that give excellent advice that like to get their dog at seven weeks. In fact, my mum got her dog when he was seven weeks from a breeder that really cared for the breed; she did health checks, showed & rescued. I wouldn't say it is a bad thing at all & I am very glad I got my puppy at eight weeks rather than ten weeks as she learnt some very important lessons in manners at that young age that have stuck far better than those taught when she was over 10 weeks.

From what I know & have read, this person doesn't sound like a straight out "backyard breeder". She clearly shows some consideration as the puppies are not being sold when they are ready (she has found homes for her puppies first) & she's also questioning owners. The only flag raised, in my opinion, is that she is openly admitting that she would like to make money. But in all honesty, she wouldn't want to lose money on this, would she? I haven't read anywhere that there were no tests taken out on the parents, nor what age the dam is, so where are people getting to by saying she should be concerned with the puppies' health? A larger price for a dog does not mean the dog is healthier whatsoever so what is there to say that the smaller price tag is automatically a healthy dog. Many people breed dogs as solely pets & there is nothing wrong with that either. Yes the breeder has offered delivery of puppies, but many breeders do & she has said she prefers them to be collected.

there is NO BREEDER here that would place a cavalier at 7 weeks who cared about the welfare of the puppies, period. There are too many red flags to count them...and sorry, but this type of breeder does NOT do health testing that they should, I would place money on a bet that they claim the puppies are "vet cleared" which means nothing in this breed. The parents are the key. I would also bet she bred the mother young, even though that information is not in the post. These types of breeders fit a pattern, I too am in resue , and I see the difference between a well bred cavalier and not...it's the dogs and the homes that suffer, but mostly the dogs , and for that, I cannot forgive these people. If you're gonna breed, do it right.
 
a friend of mine bought a cavalier years ago from a backyard breeder who had no papers. The first puppy died at 12 weeks and the second turned out to be blind and had to be put down ;(
 
I have two Cavaliers from a show breeder- but I hadn't quite realised the severity of MVD before getting my first Cav, and with the second I researched the lines before accepting the pup, so even though my second girl's parents have not got heart clearances, for example, her grandparents have lived/ are living to good ages (10 plus) and are on the clear heart list. Again, I hadn't realised about the severity of SM when I got my second girl. Now, even though both my dogs are healthy, I've already made the decision that when I look for a Cavalier again, I will either be looking for a rescue OR I will go to one of the top breeders in my area who I *know* does all the health tests.

If you're determined to go ahead, at the very least ask for a copy of your puppy's pedigree *before* it comes home. If you can't even get that, run away and run fast. A copy of the pedigree will allow you to do a certain amount of research re heart yourself. No pedigree means that you may as well collect a dog from the pound, since you will know nothing about the puppy's background. Familiarise yourself with MVD and SM and realise just how common they are in this breed- and ask yourself whether you wouldn't rather pay more, if the extra money buys you peace of mind.

Good luck!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top