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Grooming for showing

Cathryn said:
"there is much about him I would correct, and in all honesty heaven help any-one else who would critise him, I reserve that particular right! "
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My dogs breeder once said " what are his faults "
I thought She wanted an honest evaluation on my boy, Big mistake ,lol The answer she actually wanted was "he doesnt have any"
I will keep my mouth zipped in future ,lol
 
Thanks Cathryn; that explains a lot of the terms about heads! But also underlines why it takes experience to really be able to analyse a head -- it takes an expert to know what - 'enough but not too much' of something means. :lol: Of course the wide range of looks in winning dogs indicates there's plenty of flexibility in interpreting what makes a winning dog, too (once they conform within the breed standard), and I have heard tastes can vary by country -- I have often heard that there's a British look and a US look for example. In some breeds those preferences have diverged so much so as to create two completely different breeds (as in cockers for example; the US generally seems to opt for more extreme looks in dogs and especially in purebred cats!). It seems to me a lot of the US show dogs have far shorter muzzles than the UK or Irish dogs for example?.

For those interested:

US CKCSC breed standard: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=8703 (at least 1.5 inch muzzle)
US AKC standard: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=8702 ('about' 1.5 inch muzzle)
UK breed standard: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=10137 ('about' 1.5 inch muzzle)
 
Karlin said:
I have often heard that there's a British look and a US look for example. In some breeds those preferences have diverged so much so as to create two completely different breeds (as in cockers for example; the US generally seems to opt for more extreme looks in dogs and especially in purebred cats!). It seems to me a lot of the US show dogs have far shorter muzzles than the UK or Irish dogs for example?.

)
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Thats is a big problem when I make my dog sculptures. I once sold some welsh springer models to a club , she said they were ok as they were of puppies but US & UK adult springers are very different in type.
usually I just choose the type I like
 
AT said:
My dogs breeder once said " what are his faults "
I thought She wanted an honest evaluation on my boy, Big mistake ,lol The answer she actually wanted was "he doesnt have any"
I will keep my mouth zipped in future ,lol
Click to expand...


No! Don't! She asked for an opinion and should be able to deal with the response she gets!! No dog alive is perfect (although we all like to think they are! :luv: ) I will happily show you Logan and tell you what I feel his weak area's are! Any breeder should be able to do this, to look at their dogs without the rose tinted specs and see the weak area's along with the strong area's otherwise how will they improve their line? A breeder who thinks all of their dogs are perfect is either VERY lucky or suffers what we call "Kennel blindness"!! There are breeders out there who sell wonderful pups to other people because they quite simply are too critical of their own stock on the other hand, I know of one lady who has sold many gorgeous dogs she has bred who go on to do very well for their new owners yet she never shows her own breeding! You will see her in the ring with dogs other people have bred and she has bought in yet she lacks the confidence in her ability to judge her own puppies!!
 
Karlin said:
Thanks Cathryn; that explains a lot of the terms about heads! But also underlines why it takes experience to really be able to analyse a head -- it takes an expert to know what - 'enough but not too much' of something means. :lol: Of course the wide range of looks in winning dogs indicates there's plenty of flexibility in interpreting what makes a winning dog, too (once they conform within the breed standard), and I have heard tastes can vary by country -- I have often heard that there's a British look and a US look for example. In some breeds those preferences have diverged so much so as to create two completely different breeds (as in cockers for example; the US generally seems to opt for more extreme looks in dogs and especially in purebred cats!). It seems to me a lot of the US show dogs have far shorter muzzles than the UK or Irish dogs for example?.

For those interested:

US CKCSC breed standard: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=8703 (at least 1.5 inch muzzle)
US AKC standard: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=8702 ('about' 1.5 inch muzzle)
UK breed standard: http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=10137 ('about' 1.5 inch muzzle)
Click to expand...

Anytime Karlin!!

This is so difficult to explain really as every-one reads the breed standard and gets their own mental picture of the perfect Cavalier, this is why there are so many "types" around!!

Interestingly if you look at all 3 of the standards you have linked to you will see that both the U.S standards penalise a dog who is showing white of eye, yet the UK standard does not? This is an area that I feel needs to be dealt with carefully as if you try to breed out the white showing in the eye, and it is a common fault, then you will end up reducing the size of the eye and ruining the wonderful soft expression that the breed is so famous for, I am seeing only too often these days judge's write ups where the judge asks "Where have the large eye's gone?" this is a major area of concern for me and an area I am working to improve on within my own line!
 
I am becoming increasingly alarmed at the length of back of some of the dogs I see in the ring.
 
Ruth said:
I am becoming increasingly alarmed at the length of back of some of the dogs I see in the ring.
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Ironically, many wholecolors in the states are too long in the back (especially the loin) and their legs are short. Were you stating that the dogs you've seen were too long or too short of back? I was just curious as to what people are seeing in other areas? Sandy
 
Weight and length standards

What are the current standards (UK and US) for Male and Female weights and lengths?

How much does a lozenge count for, if anything?

What about height?
 
Pavane said:
What are the current standards (UK and US) for Male and Female weights and lengths?

How much does a lozenge count for, if anything?

What about height?
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13 -18 pounds - 12-13 inches at the whithers - height and weight proportionate, a well balanced dog (ACKCSC and CKCSC USA)

IF everything about two dogs was exactly equal-- IT might sway a judge to pick the one with the cute lozenge. But I doubt it has ever truly been a deciding factor. They seem much more likely to be able to pick something else (usually handling or ring behavior) as a deciding factor. jmo
 
WoodHaven said:
Ironically, many wholecolors in the states are too long in the back (especially the loin) and their legs are short. Were you stating that the dogs you've seen were too long or too short of back? I was just curious as to what people are seeing in other areas? Sandy
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I'm seeing the same as you Sandy, long backs and short legs. Some dogs are so long it just hits you between the eyes, they could pass for dachshunds and it worries me greatly that these dogs are being placed at shows.
Ruth
 
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