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Very disturbing

As I did say, it is very important to use the opportunity to talk to an owner like this as maybe they are not really able for dog ownership. They need to understand the costs that certainly lie ahead as well as the unexpected costs, as she will surely not want this to arise again. Sometimes an event like this is the point where people realise they are not going to be able to commit to owning an animal.

But the approach this woman took is still tantamount to blackmail. If finances were so tight as not to extend to covering an emergency , it raises an awful lot of questions about what she was doing owning a dog in the first place. I would seriously doubt she paid as much for her dog as the initial vet estimate, and no rescue charges $1000-plus for dogs. The money would be impossible to recuperate (but again I simply cannot imagine putting a charity in this position in the first place). I have a financial challenge if I have to pay for a dog to rescue it (see my post in the breed rescue section) -- I won't be able to recuperate that amount in the homing fee along wih all my vet costs per dog. Most breed rescues just do not have huge surplus funds.

Maybe put it this way -- what if someone you knew called you to tell you that their dog needed immediate emergency treatment that might cost $2,000 and they would have to pts the dog unless you were willing to pay the bill right away but you could keep the dog? It is as uncomfortable to put breed rescue in this position as it is to put a friend in such a position, with a decision necessary immediately. It is agonsing for anyone in rescue to have to make such a decision, as I can testify; I have been there myself.

The good thing is the immediate situation is resolved. (y) I just hope that woman goes and takes out insurance immediately if finances are so tight that she was in a position to let her dog die rather than find a way to manage the costs herself. She was quite clear that this was the choice at the time.
 
I've been debating how (or if) to respond to all the posts on this thread. It seems I've created quite a stir :confused: , wasn't my intent, but as I reread my posts, I guess I should have expected strong opinions on both sides of the coin. So let me tell you what I personally think both before and after finding out what the outcome was.

Before I was able to talk to the woman, I was a bit miffed. But, to tell you the truth, I really wasn't upset that she called Rescue, but that PTS was an option. I mean, how could she even think about putting her dog down when an operation could fix him? All I could think about was a cute little boy being PTS because of money. And to make it worse, I couldn't even talk to her because all I ever got was a busy signal. I was actually thinking quite seriously about talking to her about financing a part of the surgery :yikes so I'm glad it worked out because Kris probably would have had me PTS :lol: .

So now after talking to her (I almost quit trying to reach her because I was afraid of the answer I would get), here is what I think. She was in panic mode, I could hear that in her voice message she left. People don't always act rationally when panic sets in, just ask any fireman. Calling Rescue was an option to save her puppy's life. Add to that the fact that she just plain didn't understand how rescue works and I can understand her reaction. What may seem obvious to those of us in rescue may not be obvious to someone else who has never dealt with Rescue.

She also didn't have a clue as to how expensive vet bills could be. Should she have known? Probably. She sure does now and she has said she will plan for a possible future emergency. As an aside, she said she got a very bad feeling about the EV; don't really know what she meant, but I told her we don't use the EV any more unless absolutely necessary; we call ahead to the U of MN and have them do our emergency stuff. They are no more expensive than the EV and are WAY more qualified.

I guess all in all, I feel much better about her after talking to her. She truly loves Rocky. Another way of looking at it was that she was willing to give up a dog she truly loved so it would be OK. We really had a nice chat about Cavalier health and even had some time to talk about some of the woes and fun times of dealing with a puppy, especially a Cavalier puppy. We ended by me telling her to call Kris or I if she had any questions about her puppy; I sincerely hope she does call and let me know how Rocky is getting along.
 
Thanks for the details Bruce. I do think it sounds like panic more than anything else. Glad you were able to talk to her and everything turned out okay for everyone.
 
Remali said:
I am pretty saddened by the way some people put this poor woman down and crucified her.
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me too.....be nice if we could be like our cavaliers and be less judgemental and more forgiving sometimes. Unfortunately humans are way less than perfect. We do what we know and when we know better we do better and good for Bruce for taking the time to help this pet owner "know better" so she can do better......
 
I am pretty saddened by the way some people put this poor woman down and crucified her.
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Im not sure if this is aimed at me or not~ But I will tell you that I find it personally unforgivable to put an animal down becouse one can't afford medical care. I dont believe I "crucified her" I pointed out ways one could avoid killing their pet becouse of financial hardship.

I know all about hard times, I know about limited finances...I also know about caring for a sick parent as I have been for the last 10 years. I frankly think many dont take pet care as seriously as they should~ I also happen to agree with the very well made point that a Rescue shouldnt have to bare the financial burden of someones personal responsibility.

This is just my own opinion, and I fully understand that some may not agree...but to be honest with you I dont think the finger shaking pointed in my direction is deserved.

Bruce, Thanks for helping in all the many ways you do- and thanks for sharing this story with all of us...It food for thought for many of us that either posted or are reading- and at least she did contact someone rather than P.T.S the puppy or worse.
 
Maxwell&me said:
Im not sure if this is aimed at me or not~ But I will tell you that I find it personally unforgivable to put an animal down becouse one can't afford medical care. I dont believe I "crucified her" I pointed out ways one could avoid killing their pet becouse of financial hardship.
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When I read the ENTIRE thread, I felt as a WHOLE the mood was to crucify the woman....NOT any one person or post....and I felt what Remali said rang true to me....thus I agreed. I don't think anyone can know for sure what was going on with the desperate woman until we've walked a day/week/lifetime in her shoes. I would have felt angry as all get out if I had gotten the call that Bruce got, and felt irate had the dog been pts. I'm happy that this ended well, but right or wrong standing on a soapbox telling people how they should have acted when they were panicked is rather heartless in MY opinion. You just don't know until you are faced with a crisis how you might act.

When I was 15 my dad & I saw a man go through the ice when no one else was around. My dad is a smart man...cool, confident & very resourceful. He stunned me when he and I began our rescue plan....he turned to mush. My smart confident father was incapable if putting together a rational thought for what seemed like an eternity to me. Perhaps this woman was in her insanity moment when she picked up the phone.
 
I wasn't pinpointing anyone in particular and I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone or anyone's post....as Lynn put it, it was the entire mood of much of the thread.
 
I'm happy that this ended well, but right or wrong standing on a soapbox telling people how they should have acted when they were panicked is rather heartless in MY opinion. You just don't know until you are faced with a crisis how you might act.
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I can tell you that I woudn't put either of my dogs down, I would find another way~ I glad it ended well this time, and hopefully this "owner" will realise that they need to have some kind of a slush fund set up in case this happens again.

( I really have a hard time with the word owner, becouse my personal belief is we cant own what doesnt belong to us in the first place, our dogs are a gift and the responsibility belongs to us to make sure they are cared for)

One of the things I really like about this board is that we can agree to dissagree, and we dont all have the same opinions. No harm, no foul...its all respectful-

Blessings to you all- Im done on this one.
 
i'm a little late on this one but i just wanted to say that i am very happy that this all worked out all right in the end for poor rocky adn his "mom." also, bruce, you are a wonderful person to devote so much of yourself to the betterment of the breed and their human parents.
 
Whew, just read through the entire post, and I must say, good end to an ominous title! Bruce, I'm so glad youw ere there to talk to her. It would be great to get her more educated about pet and cavalier health...Let us know if you here about Rocky!
 
Bruce Said:

So now after talking to her (I almost quit trying to reach her because I was afraid of the answer I would get), here is what I think. She was in panic mode, I could hear that in her voice message she left. People don't always act rationally when panic sets in, just ask any fireman. Calling Rescue was an option to save her puppy's life. Add to that the fact that she just plain didn't understand how rescue works and I can understand her reaction. What may seem obvious to those of us in rescue may not be obvious to someone else who has never dealt with Rescue.


I totally agree with what Bruce said in the above paragraph. I really think this poor woman was in a panic situation. She wanted to save her puppy and was doing everything possible. She was more than likely very upset and when people are upset they say all kinds of things. I'm sure we have all done that, at least I have. Afterwards you wonder why you said such a thing. Luckily everything has worked out. I'm sure that any vet would have done the surgery and not put down a young, otherwise healthy puppy. I can totally sympathize with this woman, I would be in the same situation as far as money, even though I would call several relatives before even considering putting a puppy to sleep. I stil say she was in a panic.
 
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On a side note, for those of us in the Minneapolis area, some Banfield Pet Hospitals (these are the clinics in Petsmart) in the area are open late and on the weekends--even Sundays. We found this out last year when Gus had kennel cough and our neighbor told us instead of an ER visit, try Banfield...obvioulsy a lot less expensive than ER vets.
 
I do understand people going into panic mode. But again -- why did this woman even own a dog if this cost was beyond her imagination to meet, when her puppy's life was on the line? This is not a large amount of money in the overall context of 1) what any cavalier puppy costs to begin with -- she must have paid close to this amount already even for a pet shop or BYB dog, and she knowingly picked out one of the most expensive breeds in the US to buy, and 2) general health care including the need for occasional emergency care. To have taken on dog ownership with absoultely no thought about such costs is ignorant dog ownership. To then call other people hoping they will pay costs you didn't budget for is a bizarre way of panicking, whether it be ringing a shelter, a vet, a rescue or anyone else. The probem isn't that she called a rescue -- it's that she needed to call anyone and make the puppy's chance at life their decision, not hers.

If I were in the situation Bruce was in I'd have done just the same as he -- try to reach the person and get details and try to find a workable solution, and talk to them afterwards. But saying that, my personal opinions -- which is what I am expressing here -- would be exactly what I state: total disbelief at the nerve of someone doing this, not budgeting for dog ownership, being willing to let the dog die if someone else couldn't pay for its emergency treatment at the time (what if she hadn't found it was a marble, and couldn't have waited? I think that puppy would not be alive right now). After several years in general cat and dog rescue and then breed rescue, I am also afraid this type of story is very, very familiar. It saps the will of people doing rescue probably more than any single thing -- people wanting to pass the buck on responsibility especially if there are costs involved. Most people who want their cavaliers rehomed here are not even willing to pay for a neuter first for example, which would help protect the dog's future wellbeing and safety from ending up being bred, or to pay for transport to a good home in the UK when that is needed. On average I rehome several dogs a month now and the sad state of some of these dogs, and the reluctance of owners to do anything for them or even contribute to the costs, is the rule rather than the exception.

But in dealing with this person, I'd have a very serious talk about whether this is the right time to have a dog, much less a breed where, if it gets symptomatic SM or early onset MVD or needs patellas done, her costs are going to be a LOT more than $1000 (and clearly this is unlikely to be a dog from a good breeder with good health prospects anyway, or she would have phoned the breeder first). She clearly could not afford an MRI, for example, and would be seriously strecthed by the basic diagnostic tests that would need to be done regularly to monitor MVD. No chance of patella surgery if both knees needed to be done and just one would also place serious pressure. She needs to be a lot more mature and responsible and also to decide whether she is able to afford this dog -- to take out insurance, as a minimum. One thing you can always count on with animals are unexpected costs and occasional emergencies that sometimes are life threatening. No one wants a repeat of this situation and the goal should be to try as best as possible to make sure it won't be repeated. Hopefully it was a major wake up call. :xfngr:
 
I live on a very tight budget, and from what some people have written I shouldn't even be allowed to have a dog. Even if I went to the pound and rescued a dog I still wouldn't have money if there was an emergency, I would just do that best that I could. Charge card, borrow money, anything to help the dog, and believe me I have done it.

Both of my dogs are very healthy and I take excellent everyday care of them. Routine vet visits, food and exercise oh yes and lots of love and attention. It just kind of upsets me that some people think that if you don't have enough money for $1,000-$2,000 surgeries that you are irresponsible and shouldn't own a dog. Wow!!!!

I'm not comparing dog to children, but lots of people have children, more than one and absoutely no health care insurance.
 
Scouty girl said:
I live on a very tight budget, and from what some people have written I shouldn't even be allowed to have a dog. Even if I went to the pound and rescued a dog I still wouldn't have money if there was an emergency, I would just do that best that I could. Charge card, borrow money, anything to help the dog, and believe me I have done it.

Both of my dogs are very healthy and I take excellent everyday care of them. Routine vet visits, food and exercise oh yes and lots of love and attention. It just kind of upsets me that some people think that if you don't have enough money for $1,000-$2,000 surgeries that you are irresponsible and shouldn't own a dog. Wow!!!!

I'm not comparing dog to children, but lots of people have children, more than one and absoutely no health care insurance.
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Thank you for saying that, Sharon. I was raised by a single mother and did not have insurance for much of my childhood, but my mom did everything she could for my dog and myself when I was growing up. She is one of the most caring animal lovers and our dog was like her second child, but when emergencies came up, they were not easy to manage. That doesnt mean she didnt make it work.
 
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