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8 mth Crying in pain when scratching his neck?

Harvey

Harvey

Well-known member
Hi everyone

I'm sure i am being over fussing about my babies as normal but our 8mth old puppy Guinness over the last few weeks has started to cry out in pain when he scratches his neck - it only seems to happen every few days but he will be sat on his own and all of a sudden he is really yelping! It stops as quick as it starts and then nothing again for a few days but has been happening on and off for a few weeks now.

I wondered if he nails for too long and he was catching himself???


Thanks

Sonja x
 
Have you taken him to your vet and have they found any cause for his scratching? You'd want to do this right away and work through all the possibilities. If you cannot find any cause, then I am afraid you will want to consider the possibility of syringomyelia, as this type of scratching and sign of pain, especially sudden yelping for no apparent reason, are very typical signs. If he is yelping he is definitely expressing sharp pain so whatever the cause, getting him to a vet immediatey to try and pinpoint it should be a priority. (y)

You can get lots of information on my SM website here which will help explain the condition, typical symptoms, what to do if you think your dog might have SM, all about treatments, UK contacts to see, etc:

www.smcavalier.com

You can download and print out the symptoms document, Clare Rusbridge's introduction to the condition, and her treatment diagram. I would bring all of those with you for your vet when the vets check him for other causes. If no other cause of the scratching can br found you will probably want to immediately get a referral to a neurologist familiar with the condition and have an MRI (NB these are expensive). You can get low cost MRIs done (the only way of getting a definitive diagnosis) however these are not adequate for treatment as they aren't generally detailed enough. But all of the neurologists at those centres would be familiar with SM. The leading expert is Dr Rusbridge in Wimbledon. Unfortunatey if it is SM and he is showing signs this young it is likely to be a more severe, rapid onset form for which the only medium to long term care approach would be decompression surgery as the prognosis is very poor otherwise I am afraid. The prognosis is best in young dogs only just starting to show symptoms that go for the surgery.

Keep in mind there could be many other causes and your vet will want to eliminate all of those FIRST before you even consider SM but I would recommend moving quickly to check this out as time can be of the essence with SM.
 
Wow, I'd definitely get him to the vets as a point of some importance. There are many reasons why a dog may experience pain like this, some easily rectified, other more sinister... as Karlin has already pointed out.

Do get back to us and let us know what the vet says.

Oh... and you are not being overly fussy. This is very important.
 
I'm sorry to hear that poor Guinness is having scratching/yelping attacks - please get him to the vet straight away, no dog yelps without reason and this is their way of showing pain.

I reallly hope that it isn't Syringomyelia, I presume you've already checked for parasites? but there are other possibilities that your vet will want to rule out.
 
Thank you everyone for all your help and advice - i have to say we are very worried now and getting Guinness to the vets straight away!!

I looked at all the information links that you have posted and watched the video's - i am so worried if Guinness has got SM - on one of the videos i lady was showing that if you rub the cav in a certain place his leg went mad in an air scratching motion. Guinness has done this since he was a baby (we always thought it was cute) not realising there could be health implications.....

I have no idea how to look after him or the best thing to do for him to make safe healthy and happy - but again i guess we should wait to see what the vets says and take his advice.

We have not had much luck with our babies, what with Harvey being born with IDD and now this... its all so upsetting! :-(
 
Nicki said:
I'm sorry to hear that poor Guinness is having scratching/yelping attacks - please get him to the vet straight away, no dog yelps without reason and this is their way of showing pain.

I reallly hope that it isn't Syringomyelia, I presume you've already checked for parasites? but there are other possibilities that your vet will want to rule out.
Click to expand...

yes, the vet will probably treat Harvey for mites first. No need to panic at this stage.
 
Most dogs have spots where if you scratch them, their legs will scratch, so don't overly worry on that count. (y) With SM dogs there's often a spot that starts the SM style scratching. You'll note in that video she is also contrasting this behaviour with the numbness in parts of her dog that means he doesn't even feel her touch at all or react.

The main issue is that he is crying out sporadically in pain and sometimes while scratching. You and your vet will want to start working through all the reasons he could be doing either of these things, and to also see if they are connected in some way. Your vet will want to check ears, skin, joints, spine etc to search for reasons for the behaviour. Early onset SM is the most unlikely option but it is an option so it is a good idea to print and give your vet the various information documents and to talk about this possibility *if no other reason can be found* or *if treating for other isues doesn;t get rid of the problem or it keeps returning*.

You are never being overly worried when checking on a source of pain or discomfort. :flwr:
 
Guinness has his appointment with the vet today so fingers crossed!

I have been thinking that i will ask the vet to trim his nails as a procaution anyway...

Hopefully it will be good news!
 
The vet thinks everything is fine!!!!

He had gunk in his ears which the vet has given us drops for and he has also trimmed his nails - he said he thought the yelping was just because of his ears.... We obviously mentioned SM and he examined Guinness but said he didnt think that was the problem - he even told me off for looking at the internet, he said he was fed up with people going to see him convinced their pet had some major illness that they read about on the net.... I think we caught him on a bad day LOL he isnt normally like that, i have always thought him to be the best vet i have ever used.

So time will tell i guess - if after the drops have been used and his ears are gunk free and his nails are trimmed he starts yelping again i will go back to see him!!!

I would just like to thank everyone on here for all your advise and support - its good to know that there are other people out there that care and love their animals as much as we do ours!
 
Hmmm, I have problems with vets who think that simply because people find out information themselves, this is a problem. Sometimes it is the only thing that saves a life because vets keep insisting the probem is in the client's mind. Unfortunately about the ONLY way most people find their dogs have conditions like SM is from information ONLY available on the internet -- very few vets know about this problem (which is why I created the SM Infosite, which is *widely used by vets*. I am curious if your vet is indeed aware of the high incidence in the breed? That over 90% of cavaliers have the Chiari-like malformation --meaning their skull is already too small for their brain and placing pressure on the hindbrain -- and that probably 50%+ will develop SM over their lifetime? Most do not and find this quite shocking. This understandable lack of awareness -- because after all, vets are general practitioners, not specialists) -- is why I supply the downloadable sheets that can be brought into them. Just as a case in point -- my main vets that I use are one of the largest in Dublin with some of the most advanced hospital facilities in Dublin and they had never heard of this in cavaliers til I talked to them -- and all the vets in the practice came in to hear me explain it and go through my MRIs. I still know more than they do about the condition because I have read far more widely and keep up with the research. They don;t have time to focus so exclusively on an otherwise rare condition. If I had a vet tell me off for doing research to remain informed -- often better informed than them -- I'd leave that practice in a nanosecond. It is very belittling of your clients to hold that view IMHO and extremely condescending.

I do hope you are only dealing with some basic ear problems. If you get a recurrence of the yelping, and the scratching doesn't go away, you mght want to get a second opinion from another vet. According to Clare Rusbridge the average time it takes to diagnose SM is nearly *two years* because vets keep insisting it is either ear infections or allergies even though the dog does not respond well to treatment for either of those conditions. It is veryimportantfor cavalier owners to be vigilant about this condition and to make sure their vets know what to look for.

Your vet is absolutely right to start with the most obvious possibilities but I think you will need to be very proactive about pushing for further investigation if by some unfortunate chance, this treatment doesn't solve the problem.
 
Karlin, as usual, you so eloquently put what I wanted to say. Without yours and Rod Russell's websites I would never have know what was wrong with Spencer. I shudder to think that I could have left him suffering had I not been able to educate myself, and my general vet on CM and SM. :(
 
We're on our 3rd Cav now so are a little complacent sometimes as weve seen it all before. When you first posted about the yelping thing I was tempted to mention our experiences with that. All 3 of them at one time or another have done that and without exception they had an itch near their ear, scratched with sharp claws and hurt themselves- but they didnt understand why it hurt and continued to do it - and continued to yelp!
I know its not very sensitive but it does make us laugh - at how daft they are! However we always check the site of the itch just in case and try to ensure the claws are not sharp. I'm glad everything is fine for Harvey cos you never know but sometimes its a very simple thing!
We had one Cav who used to get his paws caught in his lovely long ears and just sit there waiting to be untangled!:)
 
Wow. I would be very offended at any Dr. who reacted that way! You are ultimately responsible for the health of those in your care--whether it's your dog, yourself, a child, etc. It's your responsibility to find out all you can, from whatever source, to make sure you are as informed as you can be---any Dr should be encouraging that.

I hope that the ear infection clears up and that you're not seeing further symtoms. If you do though, I would suggest seeing a vet how is more proactive in patients educating themselves.
 
I am pleased to hear that everything seems to be ok.

But wow, re the vet's response re the internet. It is a fact of life, and all professions now have patients & clients who are educated & often come in with print-outs. In fact there are doctors & vet who will learn things via their patients because of their research.

Knowledge is power!
 
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