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Chocolate Cavalier Picture

Does anyone have any more information about chocolate cavaliers? How often do they come up in breeding? Is it like a 1 in 10 rarity or more like 1 in 100? Also if anyone has any further insight into why the color was disqualified in the 70s I'd love to hear it. Thanks in anticipation!

-G
 
Well the thread is pretty silly in that breeders don't 'cull' chocolate puppies. :rolleyes: They are usually placed in pet homes on neuter contracts unless the breeder keeps them in the line for other desireable reasons (eg good heart history in the line). Simply because a line may produce chocolate dogs now and then does not mean you eliminate the line -- as a matter of fact Susan Cochran who breeds in the US has chocolate genes in her lines (the dog pictured is from her website) and she simply places puppies when they show up in pet homes. They are rare and do not turn up very often, just like blue-eyed tris (we have one from Ireland on our board :)). Also every now and then you get all black cavaliers and they too are not recognised though historically all black spaniels are well known amongst the 'small spaniels' that lie behind the cavalier line.

Like all breeds recognised by clubs you do have to decide on a breed standard and that includes colours. Remember that no breeds had officially 'fixed' looks and standards, including colours, until the formation of the UK Kennel CLub in the late 19th century. Breeding dogs before that was not a 'hobby' or a 'fancy', they were simply bred for whatever purpose they were to be used for, with breeds developed to suit a purpose be it hunting rats, dog fighting, retrieving, rescue, etc. There was no such thing as a cavalier, there was simply a small spaniel type that some people would have bred to a preferred type that they liked (hence the Duke of Wellington bred spaniels of the red and white variety, a colour that became known as blenheim because he lived in Blenheim Palace, named for a famous victorious battle).

I don't think chocolate is a colour that is desired in many, perhaps any of the spaniel breeds. It was not acceptable in the UK CKCS Club from the establishment of the breed standard and the US would simply have more or less followed that standard in the CKCSC and ACKCSC, so it isn't that in the 70s someone suddenly decided not to include chocolate cavaliers. The standards are all the same with tiny exceptions in phrasing.

Susan Cochran used to have a whole public section of her website about the chocolate line but she seems to have removed the links. I am guessing she was probably concerned about backyard breeders deciding to try and get choc puppies to breed with no proper health testing (and no reputable breeder would allow their good quality dogs to be bred with chocolates). Tis has been a problem with black cavaliers -- total BYBs charging extra for a dog not even recognised and from lines they certainly have not ever done even basic health testing on. :mad:

It is a shame about the Cochran chocolate pages though as they were quite interesting. I think she has even blocked them from being picked up by search engines though I believe the pages are still there.
 
I don't actually care for the colour myself -- find it pretty ugly -- but to each his and her own. :lol:

Incidentally the person who posted on the other board is just totally wrong -- no reputable breeder would EVER kill puppies simply because they don't match breed standard!! The suggestion is UTTERLY LUDICROUS. And breeders who are NOT reputable would be only too glad to boost the price and sell them as a rarity, so just who is 'culling' non standard puppies remains a mystery. :rolleyes: Given the lengths good breeders regularly go to to save the lives of their puppies, including some that due to disability or very small size would never be sold anyway, the notion that they'd have them pts because they are of a nonstandard colour is I must say, one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen stated on a board. :sl*p:
 
I don't actually care for the colour myself -- find it pretty ugly -- but to each his and her own. :lol:

Incidentally the person who posted on the other board is just totally wrong -- no reputable breeder would EVER kill puppies simply because they don't match breed standard!! The suggestion is UTTERLY LUDICROUS. And breeders who are NOT reputable would be only too glad to boost the price and sell them as a rarity, so just who is 'culling' non standard puppies remains a mystery. :rolleyes: Given the lengths good breeders regularly go to to save the lives of their puppies, including some that due to disability or very small size would never be sold anyway, the notion that they'd have them pts because they are of a nonstandard colour is I must say, one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen stated on a board. :sl*p:


one of the ridgeback clubs reccomends pups withought a ridge be pts at birth.

I think the chocolate colour & black/ black & white was probably removed from the breed standard because it was evidence of the cross breeding that had occured.

I quite like the chcolate colour. I have heard of chcocolate charlies but they apparently had health problems & did not live long
 
PS I deleted the direct reposting of the image from Susan's website -- it isn;t good netiquette to repost an actual image from another site because THEY pay for the bandwidth for everyone here to look at it. This is OK perhaps when linking to a site where someone is selling stuff and hence will be happy to have the product viewed but is not proper to do to a personal site where someone may be charged for the extra bandwidth induced by the crossposting.

You need to obtain the breeder's permission to crosspost or link directly to images like this. (y)
 
Well ridgeback breeders then are a different matter entirely and if they seriously do this, says a lot about those breeders and their attitude to the breed (unless being ridgeless is linked to serious health condition -- sometimes external features are).

But surely if breeders are killing ridegback puppies simply for lacking a cosmetic feature this is a serious issue for the clubs and RSPCA much less for regulation nationally? Given new legislation in the UK on docking and ear trimming, killing puppies for lacking a ridge seems a serious area of violation on welfare grounds alone and should be raised with relevant authorities.

Regarding cavaliers, I have seen chocolates discussed amongst cavalier breeders many times on the discussion lists and simply no one culls chocolate puppies, the idea is ridiculous. If anything, there's always much interest in the genetics behind them which Susan is always happy to discuss. They are rare enough that there are hardly any born to any show breeders anyway -- Susan is the only show breeder I know of producing them and you cannot find them online for sale even from BYBs.

PS Yep I see from the Wikipedia entry on ridgebacks that ridgeless puppies were 'until recently' culled so they wouldn't be bred! For no apparent reason other than that they lack ridges. That certainly is an argument FOR the kind of welfare legislation that has been introduced in the UK and that the Companion Animal Welfare Council also calls for... beyond belief that healthy puppies would be pts simply for not conforming to a show standard. I'd say the main reason why though is not because they shouldn't be bred, but because they can't sell them as easily. :x
 
I think the chocolate colour is absolutely adorable!!

However, it is a good job it is not a recognised colour or Mycavyangels would have to have 5 dogs!!!! :p
 
*g* Her response to that should be funny...

I have to admit I do like the choc, despite the resemblance to a form of chocolate that I loathe... I actually have the pic in my files that was posted here of a choc puppy, but since I don't know/can't remember the origin of the image, I may not be able to post it. Karlin, is this allowed?
 
Well I just happens that Chloe's best friend is a chocolate. The picture that was posted in this thread was his Dad. My girlfriends dog is over a year now and he's a cutie pie. I only have puppy pictures of him but I'll have my girlfriend send me more recent pictures if anyone wants to see him. His name is Koda Bear...

547948139_e6b5d3332a.jpg


you can see his light eyes
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Enjoy
 
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