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Thread: appointment made for spay but is there an injection instead?

  1. #1
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    Default appointment made for spay but is there an injection instead?

    I have an appointment made for ruby to be spayed. My husband hates the thought he says of mutilating her....If that is the right spelling/ sorry,. He says it is like a woman getting a hysterectomy. He thinks it is like doing that to my daughter...That ruby is so young and she is only a little girl with no way of making her own decision....

    He has been told by some bright spark !!!! That there is an injection of some sort that the vet could give ruby to stop her going into heat. To give it a week or so before she would be due to go into heat. This is all i needed...im bad enough thinking of putting her to the vet to get spayed. I know the pro's and con's from this site about how the early spay can reduce cancer and different illnesses. I obviously didnt want to have to keep ruby in for weeks on end either when she would be in heat.....Is there such a thing as this injection from the vet??? And have any of you had experience of it???? Appointment for ruby for spay is next week!!!!!

  2. #2
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    It is far more stressful and UNNATURAL (!!) on the dog's system to keep giving injections twice a year. Those are massive doses of hormones that suspends the normal functioning of a dog's system-- it isn't at all preferable to spaying. It is emergency management, not a regular way of managing an intact female!

    Your husband needs to understand that the NORMAL condition for a female dog is to be in the same state she will be in when spayed -- there reproduction system and hormones are inactive and neutral 85% of their lives. Dogs do not have the partial cycles in preparation for possible pregnancy like humans, they actually go through a stressful four weeks of heat that throws them into the full cycle of hormones *as if pregnant* (that is why you have to wait three months after heat to get a dog spayed; because their hormones are still in the mode of a pregnancy. It is not anything remotely like a period for a woman! And a dog is not remotely interested in sex or mating unless in heat (nor a male unless a female is in heat) It is SOLELY an intense reproductive drive and can drive the dogs crazy trying to get out and get access to a dog to mate at that time). You are a woman -- would you want to go through nine month cycles regardless of whether you got pregnant? That's what a dog goes through -- the whole cycle. It is why some are prone to going into false pregnancies, which also is very stressful for the female. I've had to spay three female rescues who kept going into false pregnancies.

    Your vet needs to talk to your husband and explain your dog has a fatality risk with pregnancy, a 25% chance of mammary cancer if not spayed, and a higher than 45% chance of the potentially fatal infection pyometra (according to a survey of spay/neuter literature). Have him read the recent post about the cavalier that died on the operating table from pyometra. And maybe suggest he stay home and indoors with Ruby for her full four weeks of being in heat, when she cannot be taken outside and must be carefully watched?

    If he really is upset about her hormones, go and have her tubes tied instead -- she won't get pregnant but will go through heats and you will still have to keep her in for 4-6 weeks every 6-8 months and prevent access from males, who will still try to mate with her.

    It is never wise to transfer human emotions onto a dog's sex life, BTW. Using your husband's logic and applying it to actual humans, neither you nor your daughter should ever use anything to manage your own reproductive cycles and should allow yourselves to be pregnant regularly. A hysterectomy is not necessarily a big deal BTW and I know women delighted to have their cycles over and done with. Not to even get into the subject of menopause , which dogs don't experience -- they can still reproduce even when elderly...
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  3. #3
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    Better to get a spay and not a tubal ligation I guess:

    Estrogen May Generate Trouble.

    A client asked me last week if, when we spayed her dog, we could just remove the uterus and leave the ovaries in. This seems more natural, like it may have benefits, but there are certainly drawbacks and risks. It's an unusual request so I called Dr. Memon, the reproductive specialist at the Washington State University Veterinary School to get the best advice. He said the risks are much greater than the possible benefits.

    The ovaries would still produce estrogen. Spayed dogs are a little more likely to develop urinary incontinence in their golden years. They might leak a little urine while they're sleeping. Leaving the ovaries in may reduce this risk. That's about the only benefit.

    She may not come into heat every six months, like a normal dog but estrogen would make her go into heat, produce the pheromones that attract male dogs, and even be receptive to breeding. She wouldn't get pregnant but the physical act of breeding may be risky and painful. When a dog is spayed, the cervix and a small "stump" of uterus are normally left in, and estrogen could have deleterious effects on them. Prolonged increased levels of estrogen can also suppress the bone marrow and result in a dangerously low red blood cell count.

    A small piece of an ovary is sometimes inadvertently left behind when a dog or cat is spayed and the symptoms we usually see are similar to a mild heat cycle. It may also happen, though rare, that a dog or cat will be born with an extra ovary, or small bit of ovarian tissue. Either of these would be very unlikely to be spotted during a routine spay. Finally, other glandular tissue in the body that normally doesn't produce estrogen can sometimes, for some reason, produce estrogen or similar hormones that can cause dogs or cats to act like they're in heat.

    There are two ways to find out if a dog or cat that has supposedly been spayed is still making estrogen. One is a blood test. We have to draw a blood sample, then give an injection that would stimulate ovaries if they were there, and then draw one or two more blood samples a specific time later. The samples are sent to a specialty lab and results come back in a week or two. The other option is exploratory surgery. The surgery is more difficult and more expensive than a routine spay because it is much harder to find a tiny piece of an ovary or make sure it's not there.

    Dr. Memon sent me a copy of a case report about a dog that had been spayed as a puppy, and then seven years later developed enlarged mammary glands and a vaginal discharge. The doctor could feel a large mass in her abdomen, and laboratory tests indicated she was producing more estrogen than a spayed dog should. On exploratory surgery they found a large tumor. Microscopic examination indicated it was a type of ovarian cancer called a granulosa cell tumor.

    These are the most common type of ovarian cancer but, of course, are normally not found in spayed dogs. The cancer usually does not spread, or metastasize and surgical removal is usually successful and results in a complete cure. Except that all that estrogen causes a host of other problems that can greatly complicate matters. The dog in the case report recovered, but I would guess the bill for all the things that had to be done came to several thousand dollars.

    A routine spay is a lot cheaper and complications are rare.
    http://www.roen.com/060612.html
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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    your husband sounds just like mine when we were ready to spay our pup. he thought the very same things. what convinced us both was thinking of the ramifications of a dog getting at her, especially a big dog. that would be terrible, the trauma of that plus the unwanted puppies. I didn't think I could handle the stress of that worry and neither could he. now its done and I don't worry at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruby2 View Post
    I have an appointment made for ruby to be spayed. My husband hates the thought he says of mutilating her....If that is the right spelling/ sorry,. He says it is like a woman getting a hysterectomy. He thinks it is like doing that to my daughter...That ruby is so young and she is only a little girl with no way of making her own decision....

    I've heard this argument before, oddly enough. I don't know how people make the comparison between dogs and girls. It is NOT the same as giving your daughter a hysterectomy. Firstly, your daughter will eventually mentally mature to make her own reproductive decisions. She can choose to have sex or not, to use birth control in any of its forms, and choose her own sex partners. Your dog is NEVER going to mature to the point of making responsible choices about its reproduction. You will ALWAYS have to care for your dog and make choices for your dog. You know that your dog will reproduce with any dog any time it goes into heat without regard for its own health. A dog's drive to mate is very difficult to deal with in many different levels; neutering a dog is the responsible decision for most dog owners.

    Your husband will get over it. Your dog will be fine. Don't cancel the appointment.

    PS--I doubt all the women on the board who have had hysterectomies would consider themselves mutilated. Men...
    Cindy
    Cedar (tri), Willow (blen), Holly (ruby), & Bella (blen)

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    I seem to remember our first cav had the injection once , it was very painful for her ( she had a bald patch on her neck that may have been from that injection )

    Its not something I would consider using now

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    she is only a little girl with no way of making her own decision
    If Ruby could make her own decision, come mid season she'd be off down the road with the nearest mutt she could find,doing what comes naturally to doggies!!
    You really have to be very committed to keeping her in for the four weeks with no errors at all in vigilance.
    Your hubby needs to consider what happens if she mixes DNa with the local golden retriever.A large dog can break a small dog's back or seriously injure her.
    Is he prepared to lovingly raise a batch of mongrels?
    Alas, dogs have no concept of morals and females rarely say no!
    My friend had a female springer spaniel who was excellent gundog in field trials,when in heat they locked her in the garden shed while shopping.They came home to find the local rambling scruffball terrier deeply in love with their prize spaniel.He'd eaten through the door,cut the pads of his paws to pieces getting in at her and she'd been chewing from the inside out.She had the emergency injection from the vet but escaped a few days later and went under a truck on the Glanmire bypass.
    Sins

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    Your hubby sounds exactly like mine from 3 years ago, when we were arguing over to have Millie spayed. I was totally in favour, as we got her as a pet and never had any intentions of allowing her to have a litter. He had heard some story about how it was better for the female to have a litter of pups before being spayed. Something to do with them having a better temperment as a result of this. I put my foot down and got our vet to have a word in his ear also
    I was so terrified something might accidentaly happen as I know what lengths dogs will go to when a female is in heat. My Mums daschunds had to stay away form the house for over a month during her one and only heat, and we couldnt take her outside at all. It was a total nightmare (for both us and for Millie too Im sure), so I booked her in as soon as it was over. By this time, Derek had changed his mind also
    She bounced back after a few days and the vet was so good that it hasn't left a hint of a scar on her tum.
    Chloe is booked in for her spay this coming Friday, so it will go as smooth as Millie's.
    Mam to Millie, Chloe & Rex
    Baby boy Jack (waiting at the bridge) xxxxx

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    I know how worried you are about this and concerned about your little girl. I got my two boys neutered and I was worried sick but they were fine and Pippin had his testicle up in his abdomen so it was like a spay for him but he got through it no problem. I felt bad that they would never have offspring but as I had no intention of breeding from them it was the safer option. It's your choice but I would go ahead with the spay,she will be fine.
    Gus(blenhiem) Pippin(tri) DJ(ruby)

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    The other worry is always that the father is a larger breed as your own female can easily die in the process of trying to give birth as the puppies are too big. Vets and breeders always advise terminating (by spay) a litter where the father may have been a larger breed. This is a far more risky spay situation than a normal spay and is not pleasant to do either. A dog that has pyometra also has to be spayed at a risky point to save her life.

    In general if you are not a fully fledged committed breeder, with a dog of such outstanding quality that it is valuable to conserve its genes within the breed, spay the female.

    When people talk about what is 'natural' they tend to forget that nature is also very cruel. Pregnancy alone is one of the higher risk 'natural' activities any creature can go through. Mating especially for inexperienced dogs can also be risky with the dogs often turning on each other. I have seen badly bullied and injured bitches in heat come into the pound after having been pursued and repeatedly attacked by gangs of dogs.

    It is typically so hard to see spay scars that generally a trained eye is need to spot them and even then it can be really hard. My Lily had already been spayed when she went back in for a 'spay' as a rescue and even the vets could not tell til she was on the table and they couldn't find her ovaries. It's hard to tell she even has a second scar now either! This is one of the real difficulties people in rescue have -- telling whether females have actually been spayed -- as scars are small and often disappear.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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