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Thread: neutering

  1. #11
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    Alot of good thoughts on both sides here. My friend has a lovely intact (house trained) affenpinscher who came for play day and proceeded to mark inside my house as soon as he arrived. She was mortified, but apparently that is not uncommon when intact males go a visiting. I guess that is their special way of saying hello. Anyway, the humping and marking is starting to annoy everyone so she has made the appointment for his big snip in a few weeks. Just something to think about on top of all the other truly valid reasons to neuter. If not, make sure you invest in a couple of good belly bands when out and about.
    Marianne
    Mom to Dottie, and our precious rescue, Claire-Bear

  2. #12
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    If you decide against neuter, the very least you should do is have a vasectomy done.

    <<the way spay/neuter fanatics are running the laws around here-- there won't be choice in what to do with our own dogs>>

    If you've ever walked into an animal shelter or looked at craigslist, you'll understand why there are spay/neuter fanatics out there. Most people do not deserve the option of having their animals intact. Even with responsible owners, mistakes happen.

    I also think males should definitely be neutered by a certain age to prevent prostate problems.

  3. #13
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    I've worked in rescue for the last 7 years. I'VE been in shelters. Many around here import small dogs for adoption. Many shelters around her get dozens of applications for any new adoptable dog that they put on their website.
    THAT still doesn't make me want to give my rights to protect MY dogs to some politician that says 4-6 months is the right age to neuter.

    MSN laws are FAILING to keep euthanasia numbers down.

  4. #14
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    I agree, not crazy about mandatory spay/neutering. I think they passed it in Los Angeles, not sure if and how they are enforcing the measure, but not Orange County where I live. They are charging ALOT of money to license intact dogs in the OC. (Problem is, the irresponsible people who keep intact dogs and let them run don't bother to license or properly vaccinate them either.) I guess you could say the officials are "barking up the wrong tree," and penalizing the good responsible owners. On the urging of my breeder, I chose to let Dottie go through her first season, and we will spay mid July. I did have to pay $95.00 for her license ...and it would have been $11.00 if she were spayed. Go figure.
    Marianne
    Mom to Dottie, and our precious rescue, Claire-Bear

  5. #15
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    okay i think deep down i know i will have to get vegas done after reading all the reveiws ( WHICH HAS HELPED GREATLY THANKS) I just hate the thought of him having a operation but i know you have all been through it so i'll keep yoou posted i'm seeing the vet next month for is op on his eyes so hopefully it can get done then but there is also his baby teeth which probably need taken out aswell so i guess i'll have to make another appointment for that
    where would I be without my dog

  6. #16
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    This is always a touchy subject - As a breeder, I take a different stance them most others in my breed (Italian Greyhounds - I don't breed Cavaliers). My puppies NEVER leave my home before 4 months of age, and even at that age, they only leave on a very strict spay/neuter contract unless it's someone who I've known for a while and I really feel like I can trust to actually show and help me improve my lines. Even with that - I only have one dog that I've EVER let go intact without a spay/neuter contract - With my rescue dogs, I'm even more strict. As a general rule, I don't like seeing a female spayed before 6 months at the youngest, same for males - BUT I've been known on more then one occasion to neuter 10 week old puppies so they could go to their new homes. I will NEVER EVER let a rescue dog, regardless of age, leave my house unaltered - There's to many homeless dogs already! And generally, the dogs of my own breeding, I keep until 5-6 months of age, and they're also neutered before they leave my home. That helps prevent any potential problems with irresponsible breeders or otherwise responsible owners having an oops before getting their dog fixed. I'm also what some would classify as a breeder who won't let go and has control issues (call me paranoid - I know there's alot of debate about doing this!), but I NEVER let dog of my breeding go without a strict contract AND a co-ownership, even pets. With the court systems now a days, without a co-ownership, in court it's almost impossible to inforce a contract, with a co-ownership I still have partial ownership of that dog and the contract is alot easier to inforce.

    Anyway - My opinion? Accidents happen, just alike I feel on ID tags - Even responsible owners may have an accident, and the dog gets loose somehow, and an intact male running loose is very likely to hook up with an intact female in heat. Then, most likely without even your knowing, you've helped to contribute to the huge over-population problem in this country. Better safe then sorry!!!

    Now as far as manditory spay/neuter goes, despite my feelings on spaying/neutering, I am NOT a fan of the idea - I don't think they law should tell us at what age we should neuter our pets, or even that we should have to! On the flip side - If it puts alot of BYBs and puppy mills out of business, it won't be all bad! But I'm still not for that motion. I think pet owners (and when you're taking about purebreds - The breeders!) should be responsible enough to make sure their pets are spayed/neutered.
    Mommy to Amber (B/T female born 09/2003 ) and Starlight (Tri female born 05/2008 )
    Also owned by 2 Italian Greyhounds, 2 Afghans, 3 Sphynx Cats, and 1 Ragdoll cat
    Missing Brandy (Rough Collie), Anabelle (Toy Poodle), and my other furkids across the bridge

  7. #17
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    A bit off topic-- but important to know:

    http://www.gadzoo.com/chicagotribune...e.aspx?id=3188

  8. #18
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    <<I think pet owners (and when you're taking about purebreds - The breeders!) should be responsible enough to make sure their pets are spayed/neutered.>>

    The problem is that they aren't! Sure the people on these boards may be, but the average owner isn't. Perhaps if these laws had been in place long ago, there wouldn't be all these puppy mill CKCS. We can never know, but I'd be willing to risk it if vets could make exceptions for responsible owners (just like they do with rabies vaccines).

    OOH, great article!! I like the proposed "If a dog or cat doesn't have a rabies tag, or a dog is without a city license, then the proposed mandatory spay/neuter law kicks in."
    Last edited by MishathePooh; 30th May 2008 at 02:35 AM.

  9. #19
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    Great article! As stated, there is no question that, like so many laws, it's the responsible people who will pay the price.

    BTW, every mandatory S/N law I've ever seen has HSUS behind it. I'll say no more!
    Bruce
    MysticKnight Cavaliers

  10. #20
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    But the fact is that MOST breeders do not sell on spay/neuter contracts, certainly not in Ireland or the UK. Nor do most who do, ever verify that this has been done. While the owner cannot register the puppies if they decide to breed, who cares, if you're a BYB? You can still make lots of money breeding your purebred if you don't do much vet care -- and most do not. Backyard breeders and puppy mills/puppy farms don't care much whether they have proper registrations or about the breed's health and welfare so they are not bothered. We all know the prices for junk-registered cavaliers are nearly the same as AKC-reg cavaliers, for example. The temptation for the owner of a purebred is enormous to have at least a litter to make a bit of money, and experience having puppies.

    On examples of mandatory spay/neuter instead of the focusing on a single county in California, why not focus on an entire region of Australia where mandatory spay/neuter has been successful on lowering the stray dog population?

    If responsible cat and dog breeders only have to be registered to have intact breeding animals, then why is a mandatory spay/neuter law for pet owners a problem? If I were breeding I'd have no issue with registering and being licensed. My only issue with some of the MSN bills that have come up is that the age is too young -- I'd have 6-12 months as the window for compliance. That is what many of us will be arguing for in the animal welfare bill here that will be coming up over the summer.

    Best Friends Animal Society conducted a survey of shelters in 1992, and determined that 15 million pets were euthanized nationwide that year. The good news is, due to spay/neuter, breed rescue and the no kill movement, that number is now down to 5 million annually.
    The 'best estimates' I have seen (just checking around) are actually anywhere from approx. 4-10 million euthenised annually in the US, so 5 would probably be a bit low (but is actually *higher* than the HSUS estimate...!). Also, anti spay/neuter arguments regularly belittle estimates from groups like Best Friends (a no kill shelter) -- which made a guess at a figure that may or may not be accurate in 92 (sounds high to me) -- but it conveniently contrasts enormously with the 5 million figure, for which no source at all is given -- probably because most pts rates are tracked by, yes, the HSUS, which is a bit awkward for the writer. National Humane pegs the figure at 9.5m. So you can kind of make up a figure to suit whatever point is being made.

    Meanwhile, last year in Santa Cruz the anti spay/neuter campaign claimed all the figures for SC shelters were invented. The same San Mateo info gets quoted all the time but only for a single year after the ordinance was brought in -- and the increase in numbers in the shelter were actually pretty negligible in terms of typical ups and downs and could have been based on any number of factors (for example -- adding a single extra dog warden!). I'd be interested in delving a bit more behind some of the quoted figures and seeing how they bear up over time.

    Meanwhile on other lists I read some arguing that there's no dog overpopulation problem anyway (I mean are these people for real? Have they been to their local pound?). And that because some rescue brings in dogs from Mexico it means again that welfare groups make up the overpopulation problem and that really, there aren't even enough stray dogs for all the waiting US homes so they need to import dogs.

    Well, I live in one of the wealthiest nations in the world at the moment with a higher standard of living than the US according to OECD figures yet many UK rescues 'import' our stray dogs not because there aren't enough dogs in the UK for UK homes (though in some areas, it is hard to get small breeds that are more in demand) -- it is just that some UK rescues have focused on helping rescue Irish dogs, which are pts at a far higher rate (10 to 1) compared to the UK. Some on the US rehome irish greyhounds even though there aren't enough homes for the ex racing greys in the US. Our welfare standards here are dire (and the greyhound industry kill figures are not included in general pts figures and we know probably the same number again of greys are killed annually -- huge numbers are bred for racing and it is not an easy breed to place for the failed or retired racers). Likewise some in the US see the horrific situation for animals in some parts of Mexico and help out by adopting those animals to US homes. In Irish and UK welfare circles, the appropriateness of shifting the Irish dog problem to the UK is an ongoing debate.

    Sorry, my natural tendency as a columnist coming to the fore, but I could easily write a counter to this guy's column.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

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