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what am i doing wrong???

H

Harry & Heidi's mom

Well-known member
I'm at my wits end with Heidi and i need help!

I'm sure i'm missing something that i'm sure you'll be able to help with!

Heidi is now 6 months old and is still doing her business in the house. I take her outside first thing in the morning, then again once i'm back from the school run, lunch time, before i go for kids at 3pm and she's in and out during the evening.
She is fed at 9.15am and again at 6pm.

she will do her business outside no problems, but will also do it indoors without warning,

harry is really good, he circles near the back door if he wants out, and i know Heidi will have her own clues but i honestly can't spot them. she doesn't sniff the floor or anything.

I can't understand why she will go outside and do her business and then come straight inside and do it again.


HELP
 
Im no expert and wouldnt pretend to be. All i can tell you about is my ruby and she is just over 6 months so you might be interested. I didnt train her to a crate because she had her own room down stairs with a baby gate at the door, Im sure some of the other people will tell you what they told me when i had problems but she would have only been 3 months then. They said to cut down on her space, which i did and it worked a treat. I was giving her too much space. I also got the training book, which karlin recommended, which was ok. I found the most of the advise that i got here on the site was better.
I cut down on her space and took her out on the lead with my treats and my clicker. I used to walk with her for an hour at a time at the start to get her to do a wee or a poo on demand. Then i would treat her etc and back into her downstairs room. Most people recommend training them in a crate but i didnt to be honest because i had her room. I didnt train her to each room either. Its only in the last few weeks that i have left her go through the rooms downstairs, but not for long. As the book says once she has done her poo and her wee on demand outside then i will leave her into the house.

I too like you feed ruby at approx 8.30 in the morning and around 6 in the evening. She can go for approx 2 and a half hours inside without needing to go now. Im sure she would do longer but i wouldnt like to do that to her. She now goes herself even in the middle or a hurling match with my husband out in the garden, she will sneak off and do her poo where i trained her. She hasnt wet or poo'd inside since she was about 4 and a half months old.

I would think you will be told by the people that know alot more than me to start all over again with the training, maybe reduce her space, and maybe take her out more for the start....(y)
 
but what i don't get is she will go outside and wee, then come inside and less that 10 mins later wee again.

this has gotten worse since she was spayed, i know it's not down to bladder control cos she can hold it all night from 10pm until 6.30-ish
 
Well sometimes ruby will wee outside and poo outside and then wee again before coming in. Once i had her trained to wee and poo and demand she is brilliant. But i had her on the lead and walked and stood there in the freezing cold until she did it. The experts say that when they wee inside then you cant give out to them or then they will be afraid to wee in front of you when you ask them to. Does she wee and poo for you on demand?? I say go on ruby quick wee wee wee good girl quick wee wee. I sound like a right ninkumpoop....
No she wont then do it inside. Maybe if you tell her again to wee before she comes in she might do another? Ruby does go all night too. from about 11pm until 7 am. On saturday she will go until 9am without wetting inside. Do you give her a treat when she does it outside..Ruby learned that if she did the wee outside she would get a treat and if she did it inside i just lobbed her outside to finish it. As karlin would say even if you have to strap her onto you to keep an eye on her. Ruby was spayed 13 days ago and it made no difference to her at all with her wee and poo. I know its really frustrating for you. It was for me at the start when she was distroying the place but we did get there. Now we can bring her in with us in the sittingroom!!!!!! with my good wooden floor and she will go into her bed in front of us when we are watching a dvd when the children are gone to bed, and its lovely. I said to my husband thats the way she should be. Its really only now that we are really enjoying her.

The ladies and gentlemen here will also say that they are not really trained until up to a year old. But i must say ruby is very very good...(y)
 
It doesn't have anything to do with spaying. It is simply that she isn't housetrained, and you shouldn't be worried: she is really pretty young to be close to being fully housetrained. Six months is just a puppy! You generally wouldn't have a housetrained dog for another 6 months with 90% of dogs. She still needs training, in other words -- and has no idea that because you take her out at regular intervals, that she isn;t supposed to go in the house in between. You have to take the time to supervise 100% of the time, and never allow her to make a mistake if at all possible. If she is going inside, it is because she is being allowed to go inside (eg -- who was watching her/not watching her when she got the opportunity to go? :) ); she hasn't learned fully yet not to go inside which is NORMAL at her young age, you are likely giving her too much freedom rather than watching her constantly, and she now has the start of a regular habit of weeing inside. This isn't her fault -- it is always and only because we, the owners, haven't correctly conveyed what the desired behaviour is, and prevented the undesireable behaviour from happening through vigilance. Many people lapse on watching their dog from about 4-5 months on based on some initial success (we have probably ALL been there with a dog!) -- but a dog that age is just way too young to be reliable. Even an 8-10 month old is unlikely to be fully reliable.

I'll make the suggestion I always do -- if you do not own it, please get Shirlee Kalstone's book on housetraining and follow it to the tee. Do not expect (as we all initially do!) that simply because you get success for a week or two weeks or a month, that you have a housetrained dog :). Most dogs will need constant supervision when inside, and also to be trained to each indoor room, over the first 9-12 months of their lives. Most dogs are not mature enough to be truly housetrained, without regular accidents, until about 12 months. The links posted in previous posts will take you to some good discussions and links. (y) But in general, the answer is: start over, and give 100% supervision and management 100% of the time.
 
I agree 100% with Karlin - I can't tell you how frusterating it is to get a dog in rescue because someone "couldn't" house train it, when after it's surrendered to me, it never has another accident - It's not because I'm magical, it's not because I'm an excellent trainer - It's because I just don't allow them the oppertunity to make a mistake! With a 6 month old puppy, I generally still use the "umbilical cord" method, where the dog is always tethered to me on a 10-15 ft lead at all times. I also always go outside with a puppy at that age, and make sure it's praised EVERY TIME it goes potty outside.

Another method I've had some friends who have used successfully is teaching the puppy a very strong stay. Give the puppy a spot in the house (either a bed, or a blanket, anything!) and when you're puppy is in the house, ask her to stay in that spot. If she gets up, return her to her spot - This method takes alot more consistancy and patience then the umbilical cord method. The idea here is teaching the dog control, teaching it where it's suppose to be, but it still requires constant supervision, as the dog needs to be returned to it's spot EVERY TIME it gets up without being released. I've never used this method myself, simply because I often have more then one dog I'm working with at the same time, but with just one dog that needs work on house training, it might work for you. The most important thing is, what ever method you choose - STICK WITH IT, never give your dog a chance to have a mistake, never leave them unsupervised until you're SURE they won't have an accident!

I've only had a couple of dogs that truely couldn't be house trained - And those dogs it was always due to an underlying physical problem, sometimes it could be corrected, sometimes it couldn't - But at only 6 months old, I can almost guarantee you that much closer supervision combined with rewarding the dog for going potty outside will soon leave you with dry floors again!
 
Oh damn... I typed a big long post and deleted it by mistake!

Here goes...

I think you should read the threads that were mentioned earlier about the puppies. I know you dont think that 6 months is a puppy... but in my opinion they are puppies at that age. Holly is 9 months and i'd say she's still a puppy.

Holly has not had an accident in the house for a couple of months, thankfully... but if she happened to have a wee accident... well, it comes with the puppy package. haha.

A good way to keep an eye on her is to even attach her lead, and attach it to you. Just go about doing housework, work work, like you usually would. That way she builds a bond with you, as well as you being able to keep a close eye on her.
Signs of her needing the toilet WILL be there, and this will enable you to watch closely and spot things you didnt notice before.

I live in a flat, so I think housetraining for us was that bit harder, but this was a good wee technique to help us! And its worked a treat!

Good luck!
 
I agree completely with Karlin, 6 months is still very young to fully trust her. The best thing to do is start from scratch and reward her every time she does well. However, I do think there are some dogs who will let you down every one in a while. Our Brandy and Twinkle are completely trustworthy but once or twice a year Daisy Boo will do something disgusting like pee in her bed for no good reason even though I am home all day and she can come and go as she pleases.
 
Harry & Heidi's mom said:
thanks guys


BACK TO BASICS i think

but what i still can't understand is why she'll wee outside then again inside like 5 mins later???
Click to expand...
Maybe she needs to be checked by a vet to make sure she doesnt have an infection or anything......

See i knew what everyone would say,,,,because they all said it to me before........you will get there....start again.....i know its hard :bang::bang:
 
Harry & Heidi's mom said:
LOL Ruby2 it is hard, very hard


i can't remember going through this with Harry
Click to expand...

Thats women for you i guess........ I have only ruby and never had a dog before so i dont know about boys. My mother has a bishon frise 1 year old and she is really frustrated with all the wee inside. And she had no bother with rosie her cavalier. My mother cant figure out how my ruby is so good.

Did you try reducing her space??? and only give her enough room to sleep as in maybe a crate or downstairs bathroom and then take her out every hour and start all over..with the treats etc.... thats what i did with ruby.....not to leave her around the house at all until she learns. I would say really reduce the space either a crate or just her bare bedroom. So she wont wee in her own bed if you know what i mean. i have the clicker for ruby and she knows if i click that she is owed a treat for a wee or a poo. I only use it for that purpose..
let us know how you get on....:xfngr::xfngr:
 
Harry & Heidi's mom said:
yeah she sleeps in a crate at night, and goes in there during the day when we go out and does not mess in there.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could leave her in there then and take her out every hour and treat her so she will really identify outside with wee and not inside.

Karlin says you should train them in the crate in each room.. maybe you could try that after a while of having trained her to her own room first....:)
 
I agree with the others, you just have to be patient. 6 months old is still a puppy. I hate to say it, but we have had a couple dogs that were at least a year old before they were reliable. About drove us crazy!! Generally ours are mostly reliable around 9 months with just a very rare accident; that's usually our fault.
 
Well no, you don't need to crate train to every room, but you do have to use all the housetraining rules, room by room; you have to simply recognise that if you housetrain a dog that is confined to the kitchen at first, it isn't necessarily (or usually) going to recognise that your living room also is 'indoors' and that he isn't supposed to go in there, either. As you increase the area in which a dog is allowed to live, you have to be mindful that the dog will really not think like a person and know that a house is one entire unit where all the rules are the same (particularly as they often are not -- some rooms are for eating, some for sleeping, some with furniture to sit on, some without etc).
 
hi karlin,

heidi is only crate trained in the kitchen, and even that is for bedtime or when we are out.

i don't like to over use it as i don't want her to end up hating it, at the moment she knows at bed time or when we've got coats on to go out she needs to go in and wait for her treat!!!!!!

i guess i'm forgetting that 6 months is still little
x
 
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