MRI scan

Well there are numerous considerations for breeders and many reasons why they may or may not opt for doing scans, but in my opinion, it is sad that so few breeders in the UK or Ireland have done MRIs despite the availability of several low cost scanning programmes for several years now in the UK, and a couple of events organised by clubs (the first, by the Welsh club, could hardly get any participants) and therefore have no idea if they are breeding dogs that already have SM. Fortunately that has changed to some degree and clubs are getting greater enrollment for special scanning events, but information is still not being shared, not even with researchers like Sarah Blott who is trying to HELP breeders.

I find it hard to accept the argument of cost being prohibitive when as a pet owner, I was easily able to travel across on a ferry and get scans done in a day and cover that expense even though I am not on a large salary. Knowing leo's status helped me to be proactive in his treatment and early use of frusemide may well be why he has progressed only very slowly.

If I were breeding I could cover the cost of scanning several dogs with a single stud fee or a slight increase in the cost of puppies. But again, researchers have already stated a couple of times now that if only breeders who have already scanned would submit those results for research, it could well be possible to produce a guide for breeding based on incidence across certain lines and likely inheritance, meaning breeding dogs would not need to be scanned. Information submitted to Sarah Blott remains entirely confidential and her project is actually funded by the UK Club so breeders should feel comfortable working with her project. I hope more come forward to actively support this important work, which may well be the only realistic chance the breed has of survival.

The vaccine connection (to just about everything) is regularly brought up -- but the problem is that dogs worldwide are regularly vaccinated, and there is no indication anywhere that vaccines are causing such a huge problem according to every researcher -- or there would be equal rates of SM across numerous breeds, and it should affect large and small breeds. It has appeared in dogs that have not been vaccinated at all, where people have used homeopathic nosodes. And as far as I know every one of the fully clear dogs was vaccinated (mine was). The breed goes back to only half a dozen post world war II dogs and there's good indication that probably two of these had the genes for the malformation and that it has, particularly through intense use of popular studs, become more and more concentrated.

The clearest known line is in Australia. It may well be that that a handful of lines isolated from the use of several very popular US and UK studs are the least affected. Studs have an inordinate influence on the breed because they can sire hundreds of puppies and thus distribute their DNA widely while a bitch may have only 3-15 puppies in a lifetime with her genetic contribution. So researchers have been saying for a couple of years that at the very least, breeders should be MRIing studs.

Mri Scan

I have contacted Karlin privately with my thoughts on this discussion,

Now I have thought that for others interested on the List about this discussion,more information can be obtained on the UK Cavalier Club Web Site

www.thecavalierclub.co.uk
where there is an Article by Dr Sarah Blott ,who is Researching the SM Problem in Cavaliers ,at The Animal Health Trust ,here in Britain

The Article is called

Genetics of Syringomyelia and Breeding Strategies to reduce Occurance.

In it she details what her plans are ,including setting up a Web Page where people can submit information directly .

She hopes to have this in operation in the next few weeks

I really think that until this scheme is in operation ,would it not be better if everyone waited until it's discovered what Dr Blott wants for her Research Work

This Article was discussed at the recent UK Cavalier Club Liason Meeting ,and was sent to all Cavalier Club Members

Bet

That will be very useful to have a web page for submissions.

However Sarah isn't the only person doing research, and many have been setting up scanning clinics to help obtain information, and/or requesting information for a database of study, over the past several years. Sarah Blott will be able to build on information already available thanks to many committed pet owners and breeders but there's far more out there than has been submitted to add to knowledge and hence, progress has been delayed again and again. Already Sarah Blott's work seems to be running well behind the timetable proposed at Rugby 9 months ago, when she requested scanning data from breeders at the event:

From the notes on the Canadian CKCS club site:

First part of project includes making enquiries from breeders as to what they want. They also have to
make an estimation of Heritability and Genetic Correlation. This will have to be done in the first 6
months of the project. This would allow them to come up with Breeding Values for the dogs.
- Says they already have Pedigree records from the UK Kennel Club and also have data from C.
Rusbridge and P. Knowler.
- Need MRI scans and 5 Generation Pedigrees from anyone.
- Pedigree data will look at population structure. How related are dogs in the current population? How
many dogs are used for breeding? This information will inform our modelling. Need to know where
they are starting from
- The second year of the project will be taken up with this modelling where they look at different
breeding strategies and what the possible outcome might be.
- At end of the 2 year project, they hope to have come up with set of recommendations.

Click to expand...

The project was supposed to finish in Feb 2010 so we are past the first 6 months when data were to be submitted. Hopefully they will now get what they need to start.

Bet said:

There's got to be a link it cant be Head Shapes,Those other Small Breeds have different Head Shapes and are of a different Sizes
so what is going on ,

Has any-body any thoughts about this. Bet

Click to expand...

Only going on what I have been told so correct me if I'm wrong but in recent years it's been the smaller Cavaliers that have been winning shows and some breeders have been trying to create 12lb dogs, not helped by the fact that that the standard is 12 to 18lb. As this is a recent thing it may have no relevance but, any small breed has been created from smaller and smaller dogs if you think they all originated from wolves. This "downsizing" is the only link I can see as like was said, SM is in other small breeds more so than larger breeds.

Mri Scan

Could I be permitted to answer Karlin's mention about Vaccines

There is to be a Vaccine to be being produced in America shortly by a Vaccine Company for use only for Small Breeds of Dogs ,this is after the result of a Survey carried out on Adverse Reactions from Vaccinations.

For this to be being done ,there must have been some cause for concern from the Vaccination Survey/

Also it has been stated that SM can appear in a Dog 6 to 9 months after the Vaccination .

Could I emphasize again ,that it could only be those Dogs who are Genetically Susceptible to their Vaccinations who are having Adverse Reactions ,

This is according to Dr Jean Dodds the well known Immunologist in America.

I just dont have a clue asto why Small Breeds are suffering rom SM ,unfortunately neither it seems do the Researchers.

Pauline ,it might be as you say ,since so many Small Breeds have this disease

Bet

The skull size issue has remained of interest to breeders. Researchers so far haven;t really found any significant correlation as they see SM in large skulled dogs and smaller skulled dogs. Clare Rusbridge has pointed out however that cavaliers have particularly large brains -- about labrador sized -- in a skull that is usually too small to contain it. It is rare to find a cavalier with any space all the way around the brain as is normal -- it is almost always being compressed at the back, which is the area that controls motor functions and physical sensations. This alone may well be why cavaliers are generally seen as being sensitive around the neck (vets always say this!).

As I've noted, several cavaliers that have never had vaccines and which instead received holistic nosodes are known to be affected by SM.

No one knows what causes MVD either, nor most afflictions of dogs, humans, cats etc. Genetic work in recent years and the possibility of sequencing has revealed a lot of genetic predisposition though for many of these condition. Not knowing the cause doesn't mean a condition isn't understood in other ways or that there isn't significant evidence to understand aspects of a condition. There's very strong evidence of inheritance -- good and bad -- already with cavaliers that can be traced in some lines. The fact that SM-clear cavaliers tend to have many close relatives around them that also scan SM-clear is one such strong indication on the positive side. The fact that puppies from SM-affected cavaliers even when asymptomatic tend to produce only SM-affected offspring is also very strong evidence. More scans, more research should produce a bigger and better picture.

*Pauline* said:

Only going on what I have been told so correct me if I'm wrong but in recent years it's been the smaller Cavaliers that have been winning shows and some breeders have been trying to create 12lb dogs, not helped by the fact that that the standard is 12 to 18lb. As this is a recent thing it may have no relevance but, any small breed has been created from smaller and smaller dogs if you think they all originated from wolves. This "downsizing" is the only link I can see as like was said, SM is in other small breeds more so than larger breeds.

Click to expand...

Again, just my opinion .... could it be as Pauline says the tendency towards the "fashionable" "tea pot" sizes that could contribute to the skull size - when you look at the smaller dogs there is a higher incidence of a more rounded skull shape(which would leave less room for the brain) rather than the "flat top" of a "normal" size cavalier???? I wonder if many more dieseases will pop up in smaller breeds due to the popularity of "teapot" dogs - Many thanks to the Hiltons of this world....

Mri Scan

Could I mention that I'd contacted Dr D Marino at LIVS in America ,asking him the following questions ,a couple of weeks ago.

I mentioned about it being said That Cavaliers' Brains being too Large for their Skulls compared to other Breeds of Similar Size.

I asked is it the same for some other Small Breeds of Dogs ,are their Brains also too Large for their Skulls

Also I asked is it only Cavaliers with SM who have the Larger Brains

Here is his reply .

These are good questions ,but the Scientific Information just is'nt available to answer these questions .

Brain Volumn Studies in both Cavaliers and Other Breeds with Vhiari is being worked on currently at my Hospital

Bet