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Thread: UK club meeting on SM/MVD research and breeding

  1. #11
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    Default UK CLUB MEETING on SM SM/MVD RESEARCH and BREEDING

    May I answer Karlin by saying that I'm not suggesting that SM is an AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE .

    The Bottom Line is nobody knows .

    Also about Pedigrees ,what I think has happened is that some Cavalier Pedigrees are found to be flawed ,that is why they have now to have I believe to be Cheek Swabbed, Micro-chipped ,orTattooed

    I know that in America ,the CKCS CLUB USA ,now require Cheek Swabs before Cavaliers are Registered ,because some of the Cavalier Pedigrees were found to be flawed

    Bet

  2. #12
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    Default UK CLUB MEETING on SM /MVD RESEARCH and BREEDING

    To add to my previous Post ,Now that the UK CKCS CLUB and the KENNEL CLUB are supporting Dr S Blott in her Research ,and as I mentioned I believe the only way is for the SM Disease to be being Bred out of the Breed ,which I believe this type of Research does

    Hopefully ,as was mentioned on the UK CLUB WEB SITE ,Dr S Blott will be giving more information to CLUB Members shortly

    Bet

  3. #13
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    Default UK CLUB MEETING on SM /MVD RESEARCH and BREEDING

    Sorry about this Folks,

    Iforgot to mention that on the INTERNET there is mention from the KENNEL CLUB that DR S Blott has been given £100,000 recently

    So I guess the money is there ,whether it's all for SM Research I dont know ,

    Also Dr Mellerish who was at the Meeting and is also a Geneticist at the AHT has been given £200,500 from the Kennel Club's Charitable Trust

    Bet

  4. #14
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    I think the bottom line is that no one specifically knows what causes MVD either, but you have long been convinced that testing hearts and adhering to the MVD protocol is the best approach!

    But in addition, Bet, there are very clear signs that indicate the hereditary element is extremely important or else Sarah would not even bother with the EVBs. If there is a stronger environmental cause -- then her EVBs will be meaningless as will her two year study.

    The bottom line is -- she needs MRIs to be done, she needs them done on dogs that people do not think have SM, she needs full breeder buy in and support, she needs breeder support of the Canadian genome study as she feels the EVBs based only on pedigrees and existing MRI results are not going to be that adequate and need the genomic element to be truly useful.

    Many, including more recently, yourself, have argued there's little point in breeders doing any MRIs. Have you changed that view? Because without MRIs, Sarah's work cannot succeed as she herself notes. As she and the breeders who attended the meeting recently agreed, the information she currently has is not broad enough to release in the form of initial EVBs. Who will fund and supply further MRI information? This is going to be a huge issue for this research to succeed or even for it to move forward.

    It is worth mentioning this again -- there is simply no point in Sarah Blott doing her EVB study if people do not believe there's a stronger hereditary than environmental cause. If you are unsure, than Sarah's work cannot be revolutionary and a breakthrough, because it means it is just as likely to be totally useless. The only way a clear understanding of the role of inheritance will emerge, is if there is club and breeder support for the genomic work in Canada as that is the key to unlocking the role of inheritance. That is why Sarah so very clearly asked for support for that work when she spoke at Rugby, and why she takes the time to explain the role of that research in her own work in the document on the Club site.

    Or to put it another way: if someone believes that the hereditary aspect has not by now been well demonstrated on gathered evidence, and if someone feels there's little point in doing MRIs, then there's also no basis in believing in or supporting Sarah Blott's study because it is ENTIRELY based on the strong evidence for the genetic component to the condition, and relies totally on getting in more MRIs.

    I was hoping to see breeders -- especially those involved in this meeting -- discuss their views on this on the CKCS-SM discussion list but it is surprisingly quiet after you posted about the meeting notes! That makes me worry there is little support for Sarah Blott's work because there is so far so little public demonstration of support or discussion either way on what breeders are thinking. I am looking forward to some eventual public discussion of such an important meeting. There are so many more breeders interested in the topic and waiting for direction from the clubs internationally that are on that list or other lists, so I hope some public discussion will take off.
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  5. #15
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    Default UK CLUB MEETING on SM/MVD RESEARCH and BREEDING

    Karlin ,

    I cant answer your questions ,I guess I'll be like many other lay People where this State of the Art Research is concerned,being conducted by Dr S Blott

    Maybe you should be asking Dr Blott herself or wait until her comments are to be being given to the lay people about her Research Work ,probably this is why there has been no discussion on this subject .

    That nobody understands it ,it's way ,way above our Heads ,we will just have to have patience till it has been explained to us to have a better understanding of it .

    This is Revolutionary Type of Research ,we are not experts ,but we should be grateful that the Cavalier Breed is involved with it and that the Kennel Club has given so much money for it to be being carried out

    I for one am just waiting till I can understand more about it ,and because the UK CKCS CLUB have such hopes of this Research ,I'm pinning my hopes on it.

    Bet

  6. #16
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    Actually, Bet, it isn't too hard to understand what she is talking about if you read through her description on the Club site -- Sarah herself says her EVBs are based on MRIs and pedigree work that she feels clearly demonstrate the strong role of inheritance. She also talks about this at Rugby, on the CDs I made of the event. But it is a bit technical, that's for sure!

    I am not wondering why pet owners aren't discussing this proposal, because the meeting was really about what steps breeders and the Club will take next. I am just wondering why the breeders haven't discussed this very important meeting after you posted the notes! I don't breed, so I cannot provide any further information Sarah needs for research -- she has the scans and pedigrees from my two that have been done, as far as I know, and will receive them if she hasn't. But my other dog Lily is of no value as I don't have a pedigree for her; she's a pound rescue. But as a pet owner very supportive, like you, of her research, I would certainly like to understand better what club members think of the meeting and the notes, and if there are any ideas as to how to concretely support Sarah's work by getting more MRIs to her.

    But I am still curious how you can support Sarah Blott's work and feel it is so important if you disagree with or at least doubt all its premises? This makes no sense, if you doubt the validity of the work Clare and Penny and others have done on showing the role of inheritance and doubt the value of the genome scan, and feel unpersuaded about the role of genes and heredity in SM. Logically, there would be far greater reason for you to dispute the value of Sarah Blott's work, than say Clare Rusbridge's. If you doubt the role of inheritance, you would be right to continue arguing that the role of inheritance should be more firmly understood BEFORE Sarah Blott gets involved and tries to develop EVBs that are completely based on existing research on inheritance.

    In other words, Sarah Blott's work is absolutely pointless unless the existing work by Clare, Penny and others on inheritance is accepted as the cornerstone of the EVBs. Because that is what Sarah Blott is basing her work on!
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  7. #17
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    Default UK CLUB MEETING on SM/MVD RESEARCH and BREEDING

    I have just read Karlin's Post where she mentions that the Hereditary Aspect of SM has now been well demonstrated on gathered evidence

    What I've been trying to explain is that ,and this is nobody's fault ,is that there are some Cavalier Pedigrees flawed

    As was said at the Meeting ,this is why there should be Permanent Indentification of Dogs by Microchip or Cheek Swab ,

    This is to ensure that Data collected for Dr S Blott's Research is valid ,and thus help the Research to evaluate Hereditary Factors correctly

    This will assist EBV Estimation in a positive and decisive way

    I have been involved in collecting Cavalier pedigrees for over 20 years and know that there are some flawed

    Because this new Research is what is called State of the Art Research their must be no doubt about the Authenticity of the Pedigrees ,if there is any doubt at all then Dr Blott's Research is in trouble.

    I dont know anything about the Pedigrees for the Genomic Work in Canada ,but I would expect they will have been checked in the same way as well to make sure that none were flawed

    Bet

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