Advice needed

[cwumbs]

Hi
I have a two year old tri coloured girl, Freya, who is a lovely pet and wonderful companion. I had her mated....but this was unsuccessful, then the whole SM issue was brought to my attention and I began to think perhaps I shouldn't breed her at all.
Then I thought maybe I should have her MRI'd to ensure she doesn't have SM before trying to breed from her. But I've read that it is expensive and have no idea whether it can be claimed for via pet insurance?
She quite often (several times a day) either runs her ears along the ground, shakes her head and scratches her ear area (not sure whether it is air scratching or not). She has had ear drops as the vet thought it might be an ear infection, but she has displayed these behaviours most of her life. When she was smaller if you went to pat or smooth her head she would shrink back. I am not terrbly worried, as she doesn't yelp in pain.....but on thinking she does grumble a lot!!! and I just thought this was just doggie behaviour in cavs, but I am concerned and unsure of what to do next.
Any constructive advice would be warmly welcomed.
Thanks

Ruth

Just an aside, my reason for breeding from her was something I had always wanted to experience and I would love to own two Cavaliers. But not at the expense of my girls health, or the health of any offspring.

[*Pauline*]

There really is a lot more to breeding than this. Why did your breeder sell you a puppy on an open registration? Did she intend to mentor you if you decided to breed from her? Did she health test her dogs? I would definitely not breed from her. I personally feel, and this in my own opinion, that if a breeder sold you a puppy on an open registration, they are not good breeders as they don't care what you breed your girl with. It makes me wonder if she cares about her dogs.

I would indeed ask your vet about the symptoms she is displaying.

[Cavvygirl]

Please please please don't breed from your dog. There is alot more to breeding than an attractive dog, in light of the recent television coverage of our beautiful breed it is imperitive that all breeders do all they can to eradicate this awful disease. If you are worried about the cost of an mri then please think about the potential cost of medical treatment for your dog and her offspring...this could amount to alot of money and there is always the risk of losing your own dog.

Firstly I would seek medical advice about the symptoms you have descrined, hopefully it will be nothing but it is worth getting checked out again - even if this means seeking out another vets. Then if you are really keen on the idea of a second cavalier do some research and seek out a reputable breeder who does all the neccessary health testing to protect our beautiful breed

[cwumbs]

I must say that I am surprised by the tone of both replies, I did not ask for others be so judgemental about breeding my girl. I simply asked about symptoms she was demonstrating and what others thoughts were on SM.
The arrogant manner in which others feel they can respond, really ought to be curtailed.
I fully understand the implications of breeding and I would do nothing to harm my own or another dog, if we all were tied into non breeding contracts, then who would be the select few who would continue the breed and who would choose them?

Please don't presume that any body else who wishes to breed, is somehow not up to it and so needs you to discourage and frown upon them....If this is your opinion on breeding, keep it as that your own personal opinion.

I thought this was a useful, helpful forum of like minded, intelligent individuals, all you have shown is that you have a very narrow minded and judgemental thought process.

[WoodHaven]

I must say that I am surprised by the tone of both replies, I did not ask for others be so judgemental about breeding my girl. I simply asked about symptoms she was demonstrating and what others thoughts were on SM.
The arrogant manner in which others feel they can respond, really ought to be curtailed.
I fully understand the implications of breeding and I would do nothing to harm my own or another dog, if we all were tied into non breeding contracts, then who would be the select few who would continue the breed and who would choose them?

Please don't presume that any body else who wishes to breed, is somehow not up to it and so needs you to discourage and frown upon them....If this is your opinion on breeding, keep it as that your own personal opinion.

I thought this was a useful, helpful forum of like minded, intelligent individuals, all you have shown is that you have a very narrow minded and judgemental thought process.

While I understand that you feel attacked . This cavalier board does not allow discussions on specific breeding questions like that.

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=21999

Sorry

[Cathy T]

I'm sorry but I'm going to be blunt as well. If you've read anything on this forum about breeding you would know that "casual" breeding is very frowned upon.

Just an aside, my reason for breeding from her was something I had always wanted to experience and I would love to own two Cavaliers

This is not a reason to breed. A breeder should be breeding to improve the breed. Not for any other reason.

A breeder should be involved in the Cavalier showing world in some aspect. To breed a "pet" is simply not acceptable. So many of our folks are working so hard to discourage casual breeding. There are so many health issues involved with the breed that to casually breed your pet is only asking for trouble. Is your female heart clear? Is she 2.5 years or older? Does she fit breed standard?

I fully understand the implications of breeding and I would do nothing to harm my own or another dog, if we all were tied into non breeding contracts, then who would be the select few who would continue the breed and who would choose them?

I'm afraid you don't fully understand the implications of breeding...otherwise you would no be entertaining the idea of breeding your female. The select few who would continue the breed.....the breeders who follow breeding protocol and are breeding to hopefully improve the health of the breed while maintaining the breed standard. If someone is seriously interested in breeding, for the right reasons, they would attend shows, meet breeders, ask questions, become educated and then after some time begin to seriously look at breeding by following breeding protocol and working with another responsible breeder.

If this is your opinion on breeding, keep it as that your own personal opinion.

I think you'll find this is the majority opinon. The reason we pet owners come to boards like this is because we truly invested in the future of the breed and want to learn all we can about the health issues of the breed. I think you would be hard pressed to find members who disagree.

[Cavvygirl]

Please don't feel that we are attacking you that was definately not my intention. I merely wanted to discourage you from breeding from your girl and advise you to get her checked out if you are concerned about SM. Everyone on this board cares deeply about the future of this beautiful breed

[Karlin]

Others have addressed issues I too would point out.

On the SM issue: a dog does not need to be crying out before it is in pain. Consider how extreme you would need to be in pain before you would be crying out? As an owner of two dogs with SM, I can also confrim that you can have a seriously affected dog without it showing more than scratching behaviour and occasional body sensitivity, for example.

There is information on the condition here:

www.smcavalier.com

Note that most dogs do not have all possible symptoms. If your vet cannot find reasons why your dog is doing these suspicious behaviours, then I would very strongly encourage you to talk to a neurologist once other options have been examined. These are common signs of SM, and if an MRI shows SM, you will want to give her the medications and care that will make her more comfortable than she is now, and get her spayed. As well, a responsible breeder will go back and inform their puppy owners that the offspring are at risk. Breeding has grave responsibilities connected to it and informing owners their dogs may be at risk because of a breeding you have made is one of them -- you need to make sure they know what SM is and what to look for so that their dogs get the treatment they need if they become symptomatic.

PS It is always wise to take time to read the introductory information on a board to better understand what is acceptable to post. I have a section very clearly labelled called 'Getting Started' which has clearly labelled posts for breeders. I do realise you were writing for SM information but you also have mentioned approaching the very serious responsibility of breeding in an extraordinarily casual way. Perhaps this experience of confronting one of the breed's very serious genetic health problems will underline why a good knowledge of genetics, excellent health and specialist (not just vet!)-cleared lines from other responsible breeders, and breeding only to better the breed has to be the top priority of anyone who truly cares about dogs.