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Pedigree Dogs Exposed: part four

HollyDolly said:
Perahps we all could set up our own web site "HOW NOT TO BUY A CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIEL FROM BREEDERS WHO DO NOT HEALTH SCAN.
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I am deriving a great deal of pleasure in seeing this Cavalier Health website, greatly flawed though it is.

It is put together by breeders, many of them officers & committee members on regional clubs, who only six months ago were denying that syringomyelia existed, disputing the figures, intimidating those who did scan their dogs, rubbishing the research and defaming the researchers who have done so much for our breed.

Well the defamation is still there and they are still trying to ignore the specialists that worked so hard for so many years to bring this problem to light, and whose research underpins the whole of the work now being done........ but just look what the whole site is about:-

An admission that the cavalier breed has a serious neurological problem called syringomyelia

It is a shame they did not say more about the other major health problem & put the actual Mitral Valve Disease protocol on the site as well, instead of just the criteria for admission onto the Cavalier Club over five heart list ( and go look how many top stud dogs are on that ) A little bit of fudging the issue there perhaps?

I am surprised they did not tell the people who are thinking of buying a cavalier just what questions they should ask the breeder & what health certificates they should expect to be shown. A missed opportunity there.

It is heartening to think that all those breeders are now committing themselves to using the lowcost MRI centres ( and submitting their results ) & breeding to the informal Rusbridge guidelines while they wait for the EBVs to come on line.

The world is much more of an open book these days, pet people join web sites like this and talk to each other. I am sure it will eventually come to light if they are only paying lip service to the idea of improving cavalier health.

Interesting to see they also have the list of Cavalier Club list of health initiatives on this web site.
I have been seeing that a lot lately, everybody, including the KC seem to be using it to prove how much money was raised by cavalier clubs & breeders.
I would just like to take a little bit of the credit and say that since 2001 I have been the primary player (and fundraiser, with the great help of my colleague Jeanne Boyd ) in numbers10,11,12,13,15,17,18,19,21,22,

After many years of working to raise awareness of SM & supporting research, it became obvious to me that, despite the small number of wonderful breeders that were doing everything they could to breed healthier dogs, nothing would change while the majority of cavalier breeders refused to test for the known problems in the breed.

I came to the conclusion that only publicity would make things change, hence the film interview.

I believe the Kennel CLub should only register puppies from health tested parents.
If you agree.... please sign the petition. http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ReformtheKC/

Margaret C
 
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An admission that the cavalier breed has a serious neurological problem called syringomyelia
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Very true. (y) From such beginnings, one hopes, meaningful changes will come. :)
 
Have just been reading on Dog World site that some breeders are mating King Charles Spaniels with Cavaliers, not telling anyone but registering them as Cavaliers. Do not know how this person found out but if true what is the world of dog breeding coming too, and wonder why they are doing it. Is it to try and get away from all Cavalier Health problems, but some people say that syringomyelia is a small breed disease not confined to Cavaliers so does that mean they are just compounding the health issues. I seem to be banging my head a lot these days:bang:
 
I know that at least two formal ethics complaints -- the very same issue which the club is calling the SGM for with Margaret Carter -- were filed at the same time (if not before the petition) about breeder Beverly Costello, owner of Beauella Radzinski, to the club committee. Yet an SGM has only been called regarding Margaret. The procedure must be the same for both. <Quote from Karlins post> Sorry computor had hot flush, and would not accept quote.

Have been told the Cavalier Club had recieved more than 25 signatures on petition which is the number quoted re club rules for dismisal of committe member. They say the Club have not recieved that many for dismisal of Miss Costello.
 
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I think the new website is a mish-mash, wrapping anti-"Pedigree Dogs Exposed" opinion around what essentially is a carbon copy of Anne Marie Rasmussen's 2004 Cavalier health site. It looks like what I would expect Steve Mynott would produce, if he were asked. Citing Murray Ingpen's second-hand-knowledge diatribe as if he had actually done any research on the subject, while ignoring the multitude of original sources of published SM research, certainly demonstrates that the purpose of the website is to guide the unknowing to a justification of the views of those Cavalier people who talk the talk but are not willing (yet) to walk the walk. This site has no value as a resource on any Cavalier King Charles spaniel health matter.

Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA
 
I'm not an authority on anything with Cavaliers but my instincts tell me that this site could really affect new puppy seekers and give twisted perceptions-a bit Pollyanna in its descriptions and some of its site referrals. If no one finds it great-if newbies find it and believe it than its dangerous. Rather transparent attempt to water down any attempt at change in breeding protocols.
 
HollyDolly said:
Have just been reading on Dog World site that some breeders are mating King Charles Spaniels with Cavaliers, not telling anyone but registering them as Cavaliers.
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In regards to that persons post I replied and provided a link to the Canine Heritage Breed Test, and maybe they might like to start by doing a cheek swab DNA test on suspected dogs. Have a looksee at this page and the breeds listed, note CKCS and KCS (American AKC Registry known as breed English Toy Spaniel).
http://www.canineheritage.com/breeds.php
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I'm 100% in agreement with your opinion of the site, Rod. You've stated it very concisely.

Anyone with a moderate level of intelligence will notice many red flags on the site and will seek out more meaningful information.

What I and many others find particularly alarming/disturbing is the way the people who put up the site are taking credit for things Margaret Carter and others worked so hard to achieve, and at the same time these same people have a meeting scheduled to remove her from her post.

If there ever was a time for truly health-focused UK breeders to break away from this unworthy group, it is now.
 
frecklesmom said:
I'm not an authority on anything with Cavaliers but my instincts tell me that this site could really affect new puppy seekers and give twisted perceptions-a bit Pollyanna in its descriptions and some of its site referrals. If no one finds it great-if newbies find it and believe it than its dangerous. Rather transparent attempt to water down any attempt at change in breeding protocols.
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I remember back when Rod Russell put up his website. When it's link was posted on a number of Cavalier lists/forums soon afterwards another website appeared. Now Rod or anyone else, do you remember that other website and what's it's address. But over the years I've noticed Rod's website being mentioned on lists/forums and the address provided to this or that on his site. Hi Rod :)
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On a lighter note, HollyDolly, I have just read your comment on Dog World and the "men with fast cars" bit made me laugh out loud!

Have to say that you are right though, about how rude some of these people are. It really isn't necessary for a valid, reasonable point.
 
Being new to cavvies i have an extremely limited knowledge of the breed always having springers or terriers myself. On this point i have never ever seen personally a dog that was in the pain shown on tv in fact ive never seen one full stop. how big a percentage of the breed do have it this badly. ive seen a lot of literature since buying a cavvie and was told about heart eyes knees, etc but not this, pre purchase. As to this vote we are not members of this particular section but i agree to get a broad agreement of members, it should be postal,if deemed ethical or of use, or if it needs to be held at all.as for the breed itself a long term independant body should be appointed and a descision on the breeding as regards health and breed conformity thats adhered to should be layed out for the future.also i amongst others would be grateful if the forum listed a number of what they regard as good sites to read about the various issues with the breed. this is not the part of the forum i should put this in but regards the RSPCA stance , MUTANTS wasnt it, they have just offered me the cheapest and best quote for insuring our cavvie. a question of left hand and right hand communication???:confused:
 
Reply from the CKCS Club re: letter in support of MC

I received this letter yesteday. Please excuse any spelling mistakes as I have to type it out.

The Rules require that a Special General Meeting must be called on the written requisition of 25 members and the Notice of the Meeting must state the business to be transacted. Details of the complaint will be debated at the Meeting. The Meeting will be open to all members who wish to hear the debate and, should they wish, to voice their own opinion. Members can then vote, based on the views expressed, to decide the merits or otherwise of the complaint. The venue for the meeting was selected to be in the centre of the country so as to be as convenient as possible to members of a national club.

There is not doubt that Mrs Carter has worked hard towards improving the health of the breed. In this she has been supported by the Committee and many other members. However, the complaint against her concerns an alleged breach of The Code of Ethics.

The Cavalier Club is taking steps to address the complaints made against Miss Costello. The established procedure is being followed in such matters. I understand that the Kennel Club is also considering the circumstances of Miss Costello's alleged actions.

I very much appreciate the concerns expressed in your letter regarding health issues. I was certainly not aware that that is has been stated that SM and MVD are under control, or that either are minor issues. Currently there are no definitive figures for the incidence of SM in the breed. Far more dogs need to be scanned to provide reliable data.

The Club has always done so much to tackle health problems in the breed. Currently there are more health initiatives in place and hopefully these will produce significant progress. Unfortunately, these other issues are a distraction to what most of us are endeavouring to achieve, namely healthier Cavaliers.

Yours sincerely
Lesley Jupp
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The reference to SM and MVD being under control comes from a comment made to me by a CKCS club breeder when I was looking for a puppy 18 months ago. I didn't know much about SM then, but rejected her on the grounds that she was not helpful when I asked about MVD.

I don't know if individual letters count towards the 25 people needed for a petition, or if the 25 have to band together in one go. Does anybody know?
 
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EddyAnne said:
Looks like it, and I noticed there are heaps of Cavalier sites on the internet and I wonder how many would notice that particular one amongst heaps. And I haven't seen it mentioned and it's link provided on lists/forums for donkeys ages.
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Yes, Eddy, aboutcavalierhealth.com is Rasmussen's, and the other one is cavalierhealth.info by Johnson-Snyder. They sprung up in September 2004 as some breeders' reaction to cavalierhealth.org. These breeders immediately added either or both of these sites to their own websites' "Links" pages, presumably in hopes that cavalierhealth.org would get forgotten about for lack of attention.

I expect this new site, cavalierhealth.co.uk, to get the same attention from some breeders. I expect them to add this site to their Links pages, and to talk about how "balanced" it is and how it presents the SM issue from the "breeders' point of view".

As with aboutcavalierhealth.com, when you see the new site included on a particular breeder's website's Links page, you will know what kind of breeder you are dealing with. It can become an easy way of deciding to move on and look for someone else if you are looking for a puppy.

Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA
 
I think as long as they get 25 or more individual signatures that would constitute them holding a SGM to remove Miss Costello. I know many members have already done this but HOPE more will continue
 
Rather than refute the info on the "Pedigree" programme this new site will only reinforce it. Anyone reading the health test recommendations will see that despite having research and tests available for many years we are not much further forward.
Simon Swift suggested a more in depth heart test be done at 5 years old . The Club found at over £200 it would be too expensive so it could not make it mandatory. NONE of the tests are mandatory even the FREE one at the Club show. The over 5's heart list isn't very encouraging either. It's no wonder Simon Swift spoke on the programme he has worked with the Club for years and "some" progress has been made but he obviously thinks more could be done.
 
RodRussell said:
I expect this new site, cavalierhealth.co.uk, to get the same attention from some breeders. I expect them to add this site to their Links pages, and to talk about how "balanced" it is and how it presents the SM issue from the "breeders' point of view".

As with aboutcavalierhealth.com, when you see the new site included on a particular breeder's website's Links page, you will know what kind of breeder you are dealing with. It can become an easy way of deciding to move on and look for someone else if you are looking for a puppy.

Rod Russell
Orlando, Florida USA
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Thank you for pointing that out. (y)
 
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