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Thread: Kennel Club criticises CKCS Club, supports Margaret Carter

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post

    Another well known dog with SM has been shipped off to the US where he is currently being used at stud even though he appears in the immediate pedigrees of dogs known to have symptomatic SM and has symptoms himself.

    Believe me, lots and lots of breeders know exactly which dog this is, too.

    The fact that the first dog was made a champion, and the second dog is off reproducing in the US, underlines how complicit clubs and breeders are with this kind of thing!

    I was speaking with Bandit's breeder over the weekend, and she was telling me about this dog and how he was bundled off here to the US when the heat got too bad over in the UK. Grrrrrr. Shame on the breeders who will even give him the business that makes this profitable for his owner!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    ....Yet there's a case right now with a well known champion where judges seem complicit in giving a championship, as the dog scratches and bunny hops in the ring on the lead and can hardly be touched so they are all very careful not to make him scream while up on the table. .....
    Another well known dog with SM has been shipped off to the US where he is currently being used at stud even though he appears in the immediate pedigrees of dogs known to have symptomatic SM and has symptoms himself. But the person who moved him on obviously figures lots of US breeders won't know about this problem. Some US breeders won't know, and sadly probably some won't care -- the concern will be 'let's get those old line UK champion dogs into our line' and who cares about the risk of SM....
    ...
    But there are plenty of breeders who have always bred with health foremost, some of whom have accepted their dogs may therefore not be what judges have been looking for -- and they can now come to the fore...
    Hello,
    if I read all this I'm just sad and angry at the same time.
    Sad about the affected dog, who by the stress at the exhibition probably has to endure more pain.
    Sad about the puppies that are born, perhaps in order to endure the same pain their father has to. Also sad about the puppy buyer like you or me, as we get sick with the pain we see our dogs are suffering from.
    Angry about all those who join, watching and don't say anything.

    I'm not interested in exhibitions and Champion titles, so I can not say anything about exhibitions.
    I was terribly excited when in one of "our" cavalier-forums I've read that a breeder told on the ring he is no longer notice the evaluation of the dogs listed, but what dog is scratching.
    Later if this sentence is cited, will always said that was nonsense.

    I wonder with what kind of dogs we want to live? Of course, the appearance has a role, but what means beautiful appearance to dogs and their people when the health or behavior do not fit?

    Surely I'm naive and blue-eyed and talking the World "rosarot", but I can not really say what motivates people to deal with dogs in such a way.
    Financially beneficial, the desire for the "great names" ... all this can not justify even one suffering dog!

    I hope all turns around in the right direction... for the good breeders and our beloved cavaliers!
    Liebe Grüße
    Elke und Jungs

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post

    I wonder with what kind of dogs we want to live? Of course, the appearance has a role, but what means beautiful appearance to dogs and their people when the health or behavior do not fit?

    Surely I'm naive and blue-eyed and talking the World "rosarot", but I can not really say what motivates people to deal with dogs in such a way.
    Financially beneficial, the desire for the "great names" ... all this can not justify even one suffering dog!
    !
    I know of a dog in another breed who's owners were proud she gained her title before she died from hydrocephelus at about 18 months.
    They were responsable to not breed from her but surely since HC can change head shape you dont want to be sending out a message that that head type was correct & desirable ?

    dog showing is certainly a strange world
    Last edited by AT; 9th October 2008 at 11:08 AM.

  4. #24
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    If I had to endure that my dog with 18 months - not even an adult - has to be put to sleep I rather would have other problems to deal than visting an exhibition.
    Horrible.. what price dogs have to pay for the vanity of their people
    Liebe Grüße
    Elke und Jungs

  5. #25
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    what price dogs have to pay for the vanity of their people
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  6. #26
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    Default Is obedience much better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Bell View Post
    I much prefer agility and obedience where the dogs are stimulated and look like they are enjoying it. Just a personal preference though.
    I can't speak for agility, but Oliver and I do obedience and you'd be appalled at some of the training techniques that are used - such as dogs left shut up all day so that they are keen when finally let out for a training session, and one top handler who is known for stalking out of the ring if his dog makes a mistake and going back to his car to give him a beating. And Border Collies with epilepsy mated to each other just to get a puppy from a good working line. OK, it's a minority, but in obedience as in showing, the desire to win seems to make people forget that it's living DOGS they're dealing with.

    Kate and Oliver

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate H View Post
    I can't speak for agility, but Oliver and I do obedience and you'd be appalled at some of the training techniques that are used - such as dogs left shut up all day so that they are keen when finally let out for a training session, and one top handler who is known for stalking out of the ring if his dog makes a mistake and going back to his car to give him a beating. And Border Collies with epilepsy mated to each other just to get a puppy from a good working line. OK, it's a minority, but in obedience as in showing, the desire to win seems to make people forget that it's living DOGS they're dealing with.

    Kate and Oliver

    I used to go to dog training run by one of the top crufts obedience people. every owner that joined the class was given a rolled up newspaper to wack the dogs with !
    she came into class late once & said her collie was giving birth & she'd left it with a pups leg sticking out , she didnt have time to wait for it

  8. #28
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    I know people who have left the IKC classes out near the airport (not the Dog Training Ireland centre at the opposite side of the airport!!) because many of those trainers insist on choke chains and jerking the dogs around and physically punishing the dog for not understanding it is supposed t sit or lie down.

    If anyone is ever in a class where a trainer does anything that is upsetting or insists you do something to your dog that you find upsetting, leave. Training and dog sports should be fun for both dog and owner.

    I know some agility people can be obnoxious to their dogs but there's still a lot of hangover training methods and a lot of people who will hit and slap when disappointed. I bet they are a joy to work with in an office, too!
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AT View Post
    I used to go to dog training run by one of the top crufts obedience people. every owner that joined the class was given a rolled up newspaper to wack the dogs with !
    she came into class late once & said her collie was giving birth & she'd left it with a pups leg sticking out , she didnt have time to wait for it
    I would have wacked her with it

    opps must say things like that out loud
    Cavaliers are like chocolate the more you see the more you want

  10. #30
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    I can't speak for agility, but Oliver and I do obedience and you'd be appalled at some of the training techniques that are used - such as dogs left shut up all day so that they are keen when finally let out for a training session, and one top handler who is known for stalking out of the ring if his dog makes a mistake and going back to his car to give him a beating. And Border Collies with epilepsy mated to each other just to get a puppy from a good working line. OK, it's a minority, but in obedience as in showing, the desire to win seems to make people forget that it's living DOGS they're dealing with.
    How do these people sleep at night?

    I used to do agility at a local club which was really good fun, but then the lady who took the classes was lovely and would never let anyone mistreat their dog. She used to compete and was a great handler and loved her dogs to bits.

    I have quite enjoyed watching obdenience and agility in the past, but I will be thinking of this all the time now. It may be just a minority of highly competitive people but why can they get away with it?
    Jan
    Owned by Rufus (B&T) and Piper (Border Terrier) and in loving memory of 12 years of Toby joy (Tri cavalier) - waiting at the rainbow bridge.

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