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Thread: Craigowl and other breeders who refuse to MRI scan

  1. #11
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    I know of one breeder that knowing sold a puppy who never had a chance of an health life not from SM but from MVD this person is now a judge of cavaliers and I will never every get a dog /puppy from her again
    ----Aileen and the gang (Barney----Jazzie---Jake)
    Cavaliers at the bridge Mattie and Rocky& Sam
    Better to light a candle for one lost dog than to curse the darkness of man's indifference.Saving just one dog won't change the world but it surely will change the world for that one dog.

  2. #12
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    Default Craigowl and other breeders who refuse to MRI scan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Bell View Post
    Just read a post from Barbara Reece on the Dog World thread - no idea who she is,
    Hello Jan

    I have been a member of this board for a long time but I don't post very often so I thought i would re introduce myself so you all know who I am. I have owned, bred & shown cavaliers since 1972 but don't show now and my last litter was 6 years ago. I am currently President and Health Rep for the South and West Wales CKCS Club and have served the club in various capacities (including Secretary) for 28 years. I have been involved with research into Episodic Falling for 30 years which basically means i've been banging my head on a brick wall for all those years !!!!!!

    The health and welfare of this breed are paramount to me. I only have two cavaliers now, Cleo 11 this week and her son Beano 6 in May. They have both been scanned and Cleo is affected but shows no symptoms and this is the worrying part for me. I don't understand the breeders who don't scan because their dogs are asymptomatic, it means absolutely nothing.

    Sadly in the dog world change comes about very, very slowly but there are some good, caring breeders who are doing their best.I know I am not the most popular person in the cavalier world because I am too outspoken on health issues but that doesn't matter. I just wish some of the doubters could sit at my computer or answer my phone for one day and they would soon change their minds as to how big a problem this breed has.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post
    But in the bigger picture -- eg the future survival and health of the breed overall -- it is just so sad -- no, sorry, pathetic -- that breeders of high profile will not lead by example rather than writing silly pieces like this and only offering limp lip service to what researchers like Sarah are doing. How many breeders -- who in the UK can avail of club-supported, extremely low cost £100 scans?! -- will not bother to do their own while demanding access to EBVs based entirely on scans done by breeders and pet owners who DO care about the breed?
    Pathetic is the right word.

    Thank goodness there are intelligent, caring people who take the time to post well-reasoned responses to her ridiculous breed notes.

    Like Pauline, I often feel so upset by Norma's (and her sidekick's) flippant attitudes that I can't post a response because my hands start shaking.
    Last edited by Cathy Moon; 3rd January 2009 at 11:26 PM. Reason: added text to last sentence
    Cathy Moon
    India(tri-F) Geordie(blen-M)Chocolate(b&t-F)Charlie(at the bridge)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyDolly View Post
    Barbara Reese is a member of this board and although I am sure she can speak for herself, she is a totally committed, health focused keeper of Cavaliers. She runs a website on Episodic Falling in Cavaliers and has to deal with the fallout when owners of Cavaliers contact her with health problems. I know that many a night her entire evening is spent talking to distressed owners or dealing with emails. Not all owners have purchased from Puppy farmers, as we all know on here many of the dogs owned by Cavalier Talk members have been purchased from some of the so called BIG NAMES.

    Nanette
    Barbara helped me about three years ago when I found out what the problem Amber has, Amber has E/F, I sent my dogs breeder the information I had found as she said she had never heard of E/F and no way could she have bred any puppy with health problems. she then phoned Barbara giving her abuse, I wish there were more people like Barbara that pet owners like myself can turn to for advise. Bless you Barbara.

  5. #15
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    Alex,my little 16mth old blenheim,is the limelight of our family.He is little sister and a little brother to our children.Thankfully he is healthy for now,I dont know an awful lot about SM but I know the symptoms and it scares me to think that he could eventually develop SM.It's not something I fed him,gave him something to drink or something he picked up whilst out for a walk.No it certainly aint,its something that has being passed down from generations,probably from sisters,mothers,aunts,anyone really.How can breeders be allowed to breed from same generations knowing the obvious horrible diseases that this can cause.Wierd!There must be a way of stopping these horrid,inhumane people.Smile,it's okay and I'll be a judge again,that is not right,their heart is in their wallet and nowhere else.They couldnt give a damn about the welfare of our pets.They should be legally banned from interbred breeding,if there is a legal statue,if not bring 1 on.
    Mam to Alex our 14mth old blenheim

  6. #16
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    Hello Barbara,

    I am pleased to know you are on this board - I like to know who the "good guys" are!

    I've just read the Dog World posts and have had to make a response - I try not to get involved in these, but sometimes......

    I've just had a letter from the CKCS Club in response to it's attitude to those breeders who do not follow the health recommedations that the club purports to support.:

    "it is unable to enforce its Code of Ethics. Our only way forward, as with any other breed club, is to encourge, persuade and educate our members".
    I am rather puzzled by this reply, as they seemed to be able to enforce the CoE in removing MC from the Committee!!! Suppose it depends on which particular "ethic" is in issue.

    Still, I am grateful to those who continue to support the research and hope that 2009 sees some progress.

    Best wishes,
    Jan
    Owned by Rufus (B&T) and Piper (Border Terrier) and in loving memory of 12 years of Toby joy (Tri cavalier) - waiting at the rainbow bridge.

  7. #17
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    Hi Jan

    I have read your excellent post on dog world, I try to stay out of it too but sometimes you just can't sit on your hands any longer !!

    Regarding the code of ethics--- well it really is just a guideline, legally it isn't worth the paper it's written on. The club's hope that breeders will take notice of it but they cannot enforce it. The problem that Margaret faced was not to do with the COE at all .The special general meeting was called because certain members said she had broken the committee rules of confidentiallity. The club has to hold this meeting whether it wants to or not because it is in the club rules. I personally thnk it was a travesty of justice and showed these members in their true colours.Confidentiallity is the biggest hurdle that this breed has. If everyone was open and honest there would be no stigma attached to SM and research would progress a lot faster.

    My two were scanned over 4 years ago when all of this was just really beginning. I took them for three reasons 1) I needed to know their status 2) to help the research and 3) because as the clubs health rep I felt I couldn't ask others to do something I hadn't done myself. I was told I was insane to take two healthy dogs to be scanned (amongst other things !) However it proved to me that they don't have to show symptoms to be affected and this is what I and others have been trying to get through to these breeders who are still refusing to scan. Cleo's breeder hasn't spoken to me since I displayed the scans at our club shows in an attempt to raise more awareness. I couldn't see anything wrong in doing this. I wasn't blaming her for anything, it wasn't her fault but there you go. I have a maxim which is: there is no shame in producing an animal with an hereditary defect because it can happen to anyone out of the blue. What is shameful is when that defect is covered up and the animal knowingly bred from.
    You just cannot improve a problem if you don't know the status of the dogs you are breeding from.MRI scans will not give any gaurantees but they will help to reduce the incidence of severe cases. It can be done if the breeders and researchers would only work together.
    I'll get off my soapbox now !!!!!

  8. #18
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    Thank you Lynne (and Holly Dolly). How is Amber getting on these days??

  9. #19
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    If the Kennel Club didn't register puppies unless the breeder could prove they did the health tests and didn't register puppies when the sires were less than 2 1/2 to fit in with the required breeding protocol things would move forward. With KC registered pups, many puppy buyers assume this gives some kind of guarantee of quality, it doesn't. The Kennel Club should do something to police this situation. You can't make breeders health check but you don't have to give a certificate to them if they do nothing to prevent passing on genetic defects.
    ....
    Dylan, Poppy & Kipling's
    *''' ' "*Mummy`` "*'
    ,'*" "*'

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlin View Post

    One might even ask what breed clubs and the CKCS Club and KC in the UK are doing themselves, actively, about puppy farming? [I]Because only recently, the national CKCS club has allowed back as a JUDGE a breeder who was convicted on dozens and dozens of counts of animal cruelty TO CAVALIERS for keeping masses of them in appalling conditions -- indeed, read the press coverage at the time (it remains one of the largest cases with the largest number of individual counts of animal cruelty in the UK, ever) or talk to many breeders and they will confirm that the club and breeders closed ranks to PROTECT this woman![/

    I've just come in from a walk fuming over this , I met a woman with a cavalier & she got round to talking about buying puppies & how she had asked this person for advice on something. & added how it was a travesty that said person was prosecuted as she " took very good care of her dogs"

    I bit my tongue but it wasn't easy

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