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Cavalier club in turmoil

Jan Bell said:
The whole episode makes the electoral procedure an absolute nonsence.

If Margaret had been voted in by members, would the Committee members named would still have resigned?

So really nobody that those Committee members don't like could get on the Committee without knowing they are causing major problems for the Club.

So much for the democratic election process.
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Part of the notice on the website states:-

"The club also wishes to take advantage of ERS expertise on electoral processes when issues arise on which expert advice is needed"

I intend to take advantage of that expertise as well.
When I contacted the ERS I outlined a little of the circumstances to the nice young man there.

1. Voted off by 200 members a few months ago and yet not one person stood against me?

2. Club Officers who would resign and see the Club unable to continue, but had not arranged for candidates for the vacant positions?

3. Over 800 members, who were unable to attend the SGM, deprived of the chance to vote on my return?
(These are the non-show members, they would not recognise the names of top breeders or exhibitors, but they would recognise my name from all the health literature I had written over the years. Who do you suppose would get their vote? )

4. A very real threat that a new rule will be proposed to stop me from ever standing for the committee again?

The nice young man suggested that I write to the ERS with all the details.

Margaret C
 
Can someone please help me understand all this?
As I understood once you have offered your resignation than that has to stand, if maybe it was done in the heat of the moment well maybe that could be an exception. This was not so, a couple of weeks have gone by now so do they not have to stand again for re-election? Maybe the Kennel club can enlighten me!:confused:
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Nanette, I don't understand this either, so I am going to write to the the Electoral Reform Services to find out. It may be that as the ERS wasn't officially informed of the resignations they are able to do this; so perhaps it is within the letter of the law, although certainly not within the spirit of the law.

I've been thinking about this overnight and have decided that, if only on point of principle, I should write to the ERS as I feel that there has been a manipulation of the election process. Whether this is within what is allowed or not, I believe as a member of the CKCS Club I should make my feelings known.

If any other Club member would like to write as well the addresss is:

The Electoral Reform Services
The Electoral Centre
33 Clarendon Road
London N8 0NW


__________________
 
When you joined the cavalier club you should have been given a copy of the constitution?
Have a look through that constitution and see if it clarifies the procedure for resignatiions for you.
Sins
 
When you joined the cavalier club you should have been given a copy of the constitution?
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May have done 12 years ago, but don't have it now. The ERS may well tell me that everything is above board, but for my own satisfaction I am going to write. As I said before, I think that the manipulation of the election process makes a mockery of the elections.

I also think it is rather petty to insist on posting the names of those who were going to resign, thereby making sure everybody knows who wasn't going to resign. Nothing to stop the Chairman of course, but does rather show where her loyalites lay. Glad to hear that the Vice Chairman was prepared to be more reasonable, even though she was over-ruled.
 
They don't have to stand for re-election bcause they hadn't actually resigned. They were due to resign at the AGM in March, all except the vice chairman who resigned on the spot that is. She will have to stand again or be co-opted back on. They have now withdrawn their resignations and that has been accepted, so they remain in situ. !!!
 
What is curious -- and underlines how absolutely craven all this has been, and that there are some serious concerns about how this club makes up things as it goes along, and posts whatever 'truth' suits its current agenda -- is that the original notice made a big fat hoo-hah about how these people had RESIGNED. So now it turns out they hadn't resigned. This was all a big pose, an extraordinary, fake show of their 'ethics'.

And just why we are supposed to believe it when they say they are really truly, cross-our-hard-hearts focused on health, just because the chair and the rest make a website post to that effect? Or tell Dog World? Guess we have proof they will say whatever suits, with no substance necessarily behind what they say.

Yet the chairwoman vindictively would not accept Margaret's word that she had withdrawn her nomination, and therefore left their announcement notice up for weeks until she got 'proof'? Shame! Shame! Shame!

If the committee never resigned, then why did she post that they did?

After much consideration, and with the deepest regret, I have decided to resign the Chairmanship, with effect from the forthcoming AGM.

Our Vice Chairman, Sheena Maclaine, has also resigned for the same reason as myself, with immediate effect. She will, however, continue as Show Manager for the next Championship Show in February. Our Secretary, Annette Jones, has likewise tendered her resignation and this will take effect from the next AGM.

Lesley Jupp
14th December 2009
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This implies all three TENDERED their resignation formally!! So Lesley Jupp and Annette Jones never actually tendered their resignations yet a public post that was a LIE was deliberately made to their own club website because it suited the club's diatribe? None of these people corrected this LIE? Instead they propagated it across several other discussion forums? And left this LIE posted for over a MONTH?

That is certainly worth raising with the electoral commission.
 
I think the best solution would be for the committee to co-opt Margaret onto it.This would be the fairest compromise solution, save face for the committee and salvage the reputation of the sitting committee.
In the light of recent efforts by "mavericks" like cavcarer, and the failure of the committee to accept the result, the democratic process of the club has been undermined, it's reputation further damaged.
It looks bad that the club who put some much effort and organisation into holding a SGM to oust Margaret couldn't then between the lot of them field even one candidate.The enthusiasm for vacating the position obviously didn't extend to the filling of it.
The Moral of the story is that you shouldn't create a vacancy until you actually have a successor lined up.
Sins
 
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Whoops I think I should have been clearer. sorry. They did tender their resignation but not with immediate effect and that has given them time to withdraw it before the AGM.
 
So resign, but don't really resign, just IMPLY that you did? If you resign the date on which it becomes active does not matter -- you have still resigned. If the resignations were tendered and received, when they come into effect makes no difference -- they should still have to stand again at the AGM as at that point, they will be OFF the committee. If they were not formally tenedered, then they never actually resigned. If there are now various shades of resigning as well, then that too is an issue to raise formally as it has serious implicaions for political manipulation, as has happened clearly in the case of this club.
 
If you resign the date on which it becomes active does not matter -- you have still resigned. If the resignations were tendered and received, when they come into effect makes no difference -- they should still have to stand again at the AGM as at that point,
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That would normally be correct,but it would depend on what's written in the Club constitution.There would usually be an article outlining the procedure which a member would have to follow to tender a resignation.It can also include a time at which the resignation takes effect,e.g at the next meeting or in one month's time.
It can also include a paragraph to outline the procedure for withdrawing a resignation.If however a constitution doesn't contain a procedure for withdrawing a resignation then technically you can't withdraw it.It would have to run to the next AGM and be considered on the day.
So if anyone has a copy of the Club constitution it would be interesting to see what it says.This is why I asked earlier of Jan had her copy:)
(I'm currently resigning as chairman of a charity myself so am going through the procedure as dictated by our articles of constitution)
As for the four who gave a promise of resignation,this was little more than an indication of what they planned to do and has no standing so they can do as they please.
 
Health Advisers

sins said:
Really? Why don't they get her to stand as Club health rep while they're at it?:-?:huh:
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I would just like to comment re the above quip - if we are looking at health rep(advisers) and the suitability could I just point out that in a national magazine (Dogs Today)we have listed a helath rep (adviser) for cavaliers who to my knowldge (and I am willing to be corrected on this) has only ever owned two cavaliers - now surely that is just beyond belief? Hopefully the only advice anyone making contact will get is go to your vet!!! JMHO
 
I would just like to comment re the above quip - if we are looking at health rep(advisers) and the suitability could I just point out that in a national magazine (Dogs Today)we have listed a helath rep (adviser) for cavaliers who to my knowldge (and I am willing to be corrected on this) has only ever owned two cavaliers - now surely that is just beyond belief? Hopefully the only advice anyone making contact will get is go to your vet!!! JMHO
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This follows the line that only somebody who is a breeder can understand about breeding etc, and can therefore ignore advice from researchers and geneticists on the grounds that they know best.

I believe the health rep you are referring to is Carol Fowler, who, having had the misfortune to have two Cavaliers with SM, has spend several years reasearching SM and other Cavalier health topics.

If Carol is able to give potential Cavalier buyers information on what health tests they should be asking for I cannot see why that is a problem for all the breeders who say that they are following the protocols recommended by the CKCS Club.

If you are unhappy about this, perhaps you ought to be putting your comment on the Dogs Today blog so that Beverley Cuddy can comment.
 
Did anyone catch the post by a breeder who said she would NO LONGER adopt any male puppies out to families that plan on neutering????!!!!! This is because they tend to get overweight and have fluffy coats!!!! Forgot about the risks of unintented matings, or planned matings unkown to the breeder, or behavior problems, or the risk of flight or theft...I could go on and on. This is a classic example of a breeder clearly more interested in appearance than health or well-being of the dog.
 
Rachel S said:
I would just like to comment re the above quip - if we are looking at health rep(advisers) and the suitability could I just point out that in a national magazine (Dogs Today)we have listed a helath rep (adviser) for cavaliers who to my knowldge (and I am willing to be corrected on this) has only ever owned two cavaliers - now surely that is just beyond belief? Hopefully the only advice anyone making contact will get is go to your vet!!! JMHO
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Hello Rachel,

I think you are right, Carol has only owned two cavaliers, but she is one of the most knowledgeable people I know when it comes to the health issues in the breed. Many people, including myself, have been glad to take her advice.
I'm sure there are many long established breeders that know more, but only too often their pet buyers find them unwilling to help or advise when a health problem shows up in a puppy they have bred.

Margaret C
 
Wow, that comment has been deleted [about not allowing adopters to neuter her males so they won't get fat and have fluffy coats].

Pauline, I know you saw it and commented on it!
 
Wow, that comment has been deleted [about not allowing adopters to neuter her males so they won't get fat and have fluffy coats
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Oh, so the only value of a Cavalier is what it looks like? I agree that I don't like to see fat Cavaliers (or dogs/cats of any type) but then Toby was neutered when he was young and he isn't at all overweight. If you adjust the feeding, there isn't a problem.

As for the fluffy coat - yep, Toby has a fluffy coat. But do I love him less because of it? Not a bit of it. He may not have the smooth silky coat that Rufus has but he still has the adorable Cavalier nature and I love him to bits.

Incidentally one of the nurses at my vets has a three legged Cavalier (she was born like that). Never going to make the showring, but a more loved dog you couldn't find.

Looks aren't everything!
 
chloe92us said:
Did anyone catch the post by a breeder who said she would NO LONGER adopt any male puppies out to families that plan on neutering????!!!!! This is a classic example of a breeder clearly more interested in appearance than health or well-being of the dog.
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Actually, I plan to respond to that post and tell about my four neutered Cavalier boys that lived to be 14, 14, 15 and 16 1/2. They were all kept in very good lean body condition over the years, which I know contributed to their longevity.

I think this breeder WAS actually addressing health and well-being of her pet puppies in her comment as the discussion was about longevity - her thought was that ALL neutered pets become obese, which indeed cuts years from a dog's lifespan. However, I think that owners who over-feed their dogs - equating food with love - would do that whether or not their pet was neutered or intact. The key here is to educate pet owners that obesity kills - and excess food should be equated with death rather than love! I was more offended at the idea that all pet owners are stupid enough to over-feed their pet Cavaliers. Obesity (other than some metabolic disease or drug side effect or something similarly uncommon) is a result of over-feeding - period. It's not a direct result of neuter/spay.

As for fluffy coats - well it sometimes happens but not always. That's a trade-off that I'll make because of the benefits that Trisha mentions, and there are grooming techniques that can improve the appearance of a neutered dog's coat. Indeed if a boy has good body condition and is of a correct weight, that fluffy coat doesn't look as extreme as on an obese dog. My current boy has a very flat coat - he was neutered at age 4 when his show owner retired him and placed him in a pet home. He is very trim and looks very good.

Pat Beman
Atlanta, GA
 
Pat, thanks for your input. Clearly comments can be interpreted in different ways!

As everyone here knows, I was one of the offenders that allowed one of mine to become overweight but worked very hard at helping her lose it all.

Overfeeding does NOT equal love! Overeating does NOT make me happy. Repeat; overeating does NOT make me happy! :) Yes, I too have recently lost 30 pounds of extra baggage and I feel a lot better about *myself* too! Me and Casey are now slim and trim...
 
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I've had close to 100 cavaliers come through my rescue now. Of those, I'd estimate 95% are NOT neutered. Of all those dogs, I'd also estimate 85% are overweight. The intact dogs are are just as fat when overfed -- and owners, going on my experience, do tend to overfeed. Some of the intact dogs were VERY fat!
 
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