Dog breeders in denial: Telegraph vet blogger Pete Wedderburn

Ah, banned by the site which vowed it would never ban people and would not tolerate attacks on others etc etc (though now some members seem to not just be attacking others off their board but also are regularly shouting at each other, even in colour and boldface!) ... but I see they have since removed that original claim. so maybe that's all OK now then.

I wonder whether I should apply to join? I think I may try.

There are a few questions I would like to ask.

Margaret C

Why not?
Aileen and the gang (Barney--Jazzie---Jake)

Well I did join a few days ago, user name Nanette, but honestly having joined I do not think that forum has anything to offer to me. They will always be in total denial over the SM problem (Not all) so unless things change I for one will not be responding.

Hi

So my comment had the desired effect ,they told lies they do ban people and I think i only made about four posts ,I wonder if it was something I said.

See You
brian

Oh, Brian:jump:

It would seem that joining this forum is the most hardcore thing I've done this year :badgrin: . Fancy upsetting those poor people with your unreasonable behaviour ... I expected better from you Brian of all people!!!:jump::jump::jump::jump:
Haven't gone there yet, but when I'm feeling bored and need to vent my spleen for whatever reason, I now know where to go cl*p. Fortunately I DO have a garden. I might just post in Welsh to doubly annoy them.
Seriously though, Stupid people don't KNOW they're stupid - that's what makes them stupid. Where money and reputation are involved, ostrich syndrome is usually the only 'acceptable' option for them. Deep down, most of them probably know they're wrong, but they've gone too far to turn back.

I have to admit it's a teensy bit amusing to watch them fawn over us CavalierTalk folks. :winkct:

Is it just me or does anyone else find this whole thread completely spiteful and offensive?

I thought I was coming on to a nice forum here

Just an innocent question... I thought it was considered poor Internet Etiquette to copy and paste quotes from another forum or link to another forum? I feel like I have seen a lot of that going on lately and I thought that was considered a "no-no"? Just curious.

Sorry Holly, do you mean me? I am totally puzzled. I am not a member of any other internet forums except a work one (boring) where we have to discuss plans as we can't always manage to meet up for 'pow wows' due to our offices being all over the country.

Generally, requoting requires the permission of the original poster but in practice is hard to control. Interestingly though, some who do repost are the same crowd who insisted others be removed from a forum for even giving a tiny portion of a post much less an entire post, or have complained noisily about not having been asked permission for their own material to be reposted. So, it is very interesting to see how 'rules' matter only in their own campaigns... .

If a general informational post, such as something posted as a notice or article, then generally it's OK to quote and post a link to the source. Copyright notices vary but in practice, there's little that can be done even if copyright is violated.

Linking to a forum... context matters as far as netiquette goes. I prefer to follow what has been long established (since the 80s on old Usenet forums and elsewhere) and ask people generally not to link or discuss other forums. However there are extenuating circumstances in certain cases. As many of you will know (not least because you found this happened with your own posts!), for a long time I have edited posts and removed links for such reasons. However at the moment, for some reasons specific to the ongoing situation with breed health, I have made the choice to allow some discussion.

What is netiquette? Read more here.

Netiquette, a portmanteau of "net etiquette", is a set of social conventions that facilitate interaction over networks, ranging from Usenet and mailing lists to blogs and forums. These rules were described in IETF RFC 1855.[1] However, like many Internet phenomena, the concept and its application remain in a state of flux, and vary from community to community. The points most strongly emphasized about USENET netiquette often include using simple electronic signatures, and avoiding multiposting, cross-posting, off-topic posting, hijacking a discussion thread, and other techniques used to minimize the effort required to read a post or a thread.

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Breeders Wake up and smell the despair and Heartache

There are a few article in this weeks Dog World relating to the attitude of Cavalier Breeders. One has stuck in my mind all day. This was on the letter page:-

:cry*ing: This is the harsh cold reality that some CKCS breeders ignore in their pompous statements re: never scanning. These little dogs mean so much to their owners, hearts are being broken and the irresponsible breeders could care less as long as they can have their social tea and show off their ribbons and trophies. If there was only a way to unite the reputable breeders in the fight against MVD and SM so that they could be shown as the "knights in shining armor" they are and let everyone know who really cares about the CKCS.

Thank you for posting this article, HollyDolly.

Equally as bad as the pompous CKCS breeders who say they won't scan are the irresponsible CKCS breeders who state they do scan when in reality it is haphazard scanning that has nothing to do with following SM protocol, but just to make themselves appear to be responsible to unwary puppy buyers. This manipulative behavior needs to be outed by educated puppy buyers.

Interesting how the article mentions taking breeders to small claims court - a logical progression really, given the untold suffering and grief caused by SM and irresponsible breeding.

When a previously irresponsible breeder has a change of heart, comes clean publicly, strives to breed healthy cavaliers, and submits needed scans, etc. to research, I think they are deserving of forgiveness and hopefully will earn the acceptance of others.

That's a heartbreaking story Nanette.
I hope the person from the Kennel Club who wote in their e mail to you

the ‘quality’ of Cavaliers on the database would improve, but these would represent a very reduced number of Cavaliers

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has read this letter.
I believe self regulation is the preferred way to go,but seeing as a determined group of cavalier breeders remain unconvinced that there are tangible benefits to MRI scanning the cavalier club may run out of time with their efforts to pull everyone together.
This week's Dogworld headline "Cavalier members confused" is no more flattering than last weeks "Cavalier members thwart health plans".All headlines across the various canine publications have been predominantly negative.
If the kennel Club can impose mandatory testing for a metabolic disorder in the Irish Setter Breeds,technically there is nothing to stop them from imposing mandatory testing for the CKCS.
The KC would not lose the breeders who show their cavaliers.They would lose a significant proportion of the "Non show fraternity", call them the BYB or whatever, with the associated loss of registration fees.I wonder if this is the reason they don't want to reduce the numbers of cavaliers on the database?
I've seen suggestions about scanning cavaliers before giving them a CC,but surely many cavaliers attain their CCs before they're even old enough to get a scan to be given a grade A?So I can't see that being of any use.
Also there's no point in making show breeders jump through hoops requiring scans before giving titles when the overwhelming majority of breeding stock registered with the KC never see the inside of a showring.
I think in the coming months we'll see the screws being turned on the KC to impose mandatory testing for MVD and SM for KC registered cavaliers.
The cavalier Club has no influence over the breeders who are not members,and can only try to work with their own membership,but the KC has the power to influence every breeder who registers with them and with continuing negative headlines and a new PDE documentary on the way, we may yet have another summer of discontent.
Sins

sins said:

I've seen suggestions about scanning cavaliers before giving them a CC,but surely many cavaliers attain their CCs before they're even old enough to get a scan to be given a grade A?So I can't see that being of any use.
Sins

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I know a few Cavaliers who have gained a CC (Challenge Certficate) before the age of 12 months. Perhaps the answer would be NO Cavaliers eligible to enter a dog show unless they comply with ALL health testing. Horror of horrors I can hear them shout, that would mean NO dog allowed to be shown until they were at least 30 months. Non compliance, so be it.