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Thread: MVD report

  1. #11
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    Hi Bet and welcome back.
    My sister lost her nine year old cavalier to MVD about a month ago.Thankfully she didn't suffer and went quickly but left them very traumatised and suffering massive guilt that they couldn't/didn't do more.
    I read Simon Swift's report and wasn't sure what to make of it,although it was only a summary.
    As for PDE only giving him a fraction of the recorded time to talk about the Club heart scheme,it allowed Jeff Sampson instead to fly the flag for the scheme which he did quite robustly.
    I think many breeders have done very well in improving MVD,maybe they just need to get them tested regularly and recorded on the heart list.
    The list just seems to be *over fives* but the dogs could be any age.
    The most depressing fact is the acceptance of the veterinary profession of MVD in the breed.My own vet just calls it the "breed standard murmur".
    There are many people who are unhappy with things in the doggieworld,some complain and do nothing,others just blunder along and go with the flow but every now and again a few will come along and decide they can either wait for someone else to do something or get off their backsides and do something about it themselves.
    It's always good to see a pet owner battling for the breed they love so much.Hope you've been keeping well.
    Sins

  2. #12
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    Can I also combine this Post with a Personal message to all on the List who I will have insulted in the past with my thoughtless views and say how sorry I am to have made them.

    Particularly to,Margaret Carter ,Carol Fowler, Jemima Harrison ,Dr C Rusbridge, and Penny Knowler.If there is any-body else Iv'e missed out please accept my Apologies.

    I sure regret having said what I have said in the Past.

    If I could back in Time ,at the beginning of the SM Problem Making it's appearance ,I said things that I ,at that time believed, but then several things happened to make me realize how wrong I was in my views.
    As the saying goes:
    let he who is without sin cast the first stone..........

    Welcome back Bet.
    Claire
    Once owned by Rudeepoohs
    then rescued by CaraMia and Minnie Moo.
    Missing all my girls every day....

  3. #13
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    Hi Bet

    Well we have something in common as neither of us are wanted on THAT other breeders forum who seem to either ban you or insult you if you dont agree with the party line. So as I said I am more than pleased to see you here its a far higher quality of people who I know will highly appreciate your vast knowledge base on MVD.
    Thanks Bet.
    Brian M

    Poppy the Tri, Daisy the Blen, Rosie the Ruby and Lily the B & T

  4. #14
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    I have to agree with Sins about the veterninary professions acceptance to MVD in the breed, while I feel we have a very good vet dealing with Jasper`s MVD when Jasper first went back to vets after coughing earlier this year, after she had done an xray to find the extent of his problem her comment was "it`s the usual cavalier thing" which is not much comfort and he doing fine, I worry for the future of him and all cavaliers as I would dearly like to have another one sometime in the future.

  5. #15
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    Default MVD Report

    All I can say is Jings, !!!,Thank you all for your Welcome, And I just can't say often enough ,how much I regret and sorry I am about what I said in the past to so many Folk.

    Yes Sins ,I am keeping fine, it's always a bit of a worry when the next check up is due.

    Bet ( Hargreaves)

  6. #16
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    Hello Bet,

    Thank you for the public apology.

    We have already talked on the phone, and the episode is now closed as far as I am concerned.

    I do know you have always been a tireless campaigner for cavalier health, so welcome back.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    Next the Letter from the UK CKCS Club Chairman appeared ,a lady I have admired for many years ,It was Mrs Jupp who about 20 years ago got to grips with the MVD Problem in the Breed,I don't know if she was ever given credit for it ,how she battled on.

    Bet( Hargreaves)
    Lesley Jupp has worked for years on the Cavalier Club heart testing scheme. She spent countless hours adding information to the database. She tried in every way possible to encourage owners to support the scheme.
    The problem was that relatively few breeders actually submitted forms ( 8667 dogs on the database over a period of 18 years.)

    I only know of one breeder that followed the heart protocol to the letter ( not breeding until dog & bitch were at least 2.5 years old and without a murmur, and their parents were 5 years old and murmur free )

    We said we had a MVD protocol, it was on the Cavalier Club website & published in the Yearbook.
    At no time did anyone stop, look, and question whether the scheme was working, whether it was worth going on with it, or whether something other than a failed voluntary scheme should be considered.

    The protocol was designed to tackle early onset MVD. It has not worked because breeders did not follow it, and having looked at the latest Breed Record Supplements, it seems they are still not following it.

    I am not talking puppy farmers or back yard breeders here, I'm talking about cavalier club members.

    Most, but not all, breeders who are club members will probably have their dogs and bitches heart checked before they breed from them, but they breed from them when they are far too young, few wait until the dogs are 2.5 years.

    The problem is that if you use a dog when he is one year old, and he sires nice puppies, then he could have numerous descendants beore he reaches the age of four years.

    If he develops a murmur at that age............

    Then if you mated him to a bitch of fourteen months, who developed a murmur at three years old............

    And they had produced a nice puppy, who became a top stud dog, and was first used when he was 10 months........

    And remember 50% of cavaliers will have a murmur at five.
    Under the existing protocol not one of those cavaliers, nor any of their puppies ( if they produced them after the age of 2.5 years ) should have qualified as breeding stock.

    Voluntary testing does not work, breeders always find a reason why it should not apply to them.
    Health tests need to be mandatory.
    Margaret C

    Cavaliers......Faith, The Ginger Tank and Woody.
    Japanese Chins.... Dandy, Benny, Bridgette and Hana.
    Remembered with love......... Tommy Tuppence and Fonzi

  8. #18
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    Thanks Margaret, I appreciate your Post very much, I did say some dreadful things,

    As you say Lesley Jupp has worked so hard over the years to get the Cavalier Heart Testing Scheme off the ground.

    The UK Cavalier World ,particularly us Broken Hearted Cavalier Owners who lost our Cherished Cavaliers at such an early age because of the Heart trouble afflicting our Breed have so much to be grateful to Mrs Jupp for .At least she was listening to us. ,As I have said ,it was known about the Cavalier Heart Trouble since the 1940's, Cavaliers were being used around those early days ,with Heart Trouble, at Stud, is this why there really does seem to be not much improvement in the Cavaliers Heart Problem ,is there now so many Cavaliers around Carriers of the MVD Gene.

    What is so disappointing that there are still some Cavalier Breeders Blinkered about the MVD Problem.Just look at the 2008 UK CKCS Top Stud List and see how many have been used at Stud before they were 2.5 years.

    I have worked out ,I think that over the 18 years Simon Swift mentioned of 8,667 Cavaliers being in the Data -base, that would be about 480 per year ,how many Cavaliers would that be from CKCS Club Members.How many would that be being Bred from ,who had not reached the Breeding Guidelines.?

    This is why I say ,for goodness sake don't let the SM Problem go in Cavaliers, the same way as the MVD problem has done, but maybe it has already.

    Maybe though ,times are a bit different now ,us Cavalier Pet Folk have now the use of the Internet,and can get the Message across to other Prospective Cavalier Puppy Buyers, always ask to see a Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder that Health Tests have been carried out on their Breeding Stock, if this can't shown, then Walk away. Nothing will focus Breeders Minds if Cavalier Puppy Buyers do this. !!

    Bet (Hargreaves)

  9. #19
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    Welcome back Bet. I tired to contact you to keep in touch as you were leaving CC. I'm happy you have had a change of heart and I am looking forward to you joining us in the battle against SM as well as MVD.
    ....
    Dylan, Poppy & Kipling's
    *''' ' "*Mummy`` "*'
    ,'*" "*'

  10. #20
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    Hi Bet, its good to see you on here,im sure your wealth of knowledge on MVD will be appreciated & good to now have you on board for the much needed fight against SM. Its of great concern that some breeders are not willing to get involved in the EBV scheme & i strongly agree with Margaret that all testing needs to be mandatory, IMHO look at the mess thats been made whilst its been voluntary.
    FWIW i admired your stand on CC after their vile "jokes"
    Blessed by the love of a Cavalier!
    G & Ruby(ruby girl!)B:04? Ex PF rescue,she came to me in '08 & has SM/MVD & she's a special princess & Jelly Tots(B&T girl)B:20/3/09,a real cuddles cheeky chops & the baby of the family!

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