Petition

[Bet]

I was pleased to sign the Petition , sorry if I mentioned about the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed,but I just thought it was so important to mention it as well.

This is what has been needed for so long ,for our voices to be being listened to.

Bet( Hargreaves)

[harleyfarley]

oh dear its not been received well on "that other forum", di

[JessWhitfield]

Bet. Im pleased that you signed it too and thank you. MVD is just as important. I just feel overall more people are aware of that as appose to SM. Frankly, it should all be stopped. It just makes me so angry and emotional. Im finding it quite hard to even look at Daisy now without wanting to cry. I cant be sure she has SM because MRI scanning is so expensive.

Harley, on which forum is it not being received well?

Again, thank you all.

[Bet]

Jess,

This is a great thought you have had, I don't know how many Folk will sign the Petition , but what also is so important is the many Folk in other Countries who have read it.

The Petition is being read World Wide.

Bet(Hargreaves)

[Karlin]

That 'other forum' is somewhat biased in that it has several breeder members who know well they have ignored their pet puppy owners who have returned to tell them their dogs have SM and MVD -- in several cases, refusing to return their calls or respond to their letters, some sent registered (I encourage anyone with an affected dog to send the breeder a registered letter just to confirm it has been received. Then send the results of the scan/heart cert to Sarah Blott for the EBV research). There are show breeders who have sold on their SM-affected dogs outside of the UK, and those who imply the affected dogs that they do acknowledge, came from other breeders when the truth is that a dog of their own breeding was involved in the mating. There are breeders who publicly advocate puppy buyers only buy from breeders with heart certs, yet I have clear evidence in email exchanges of a pet buyer privately encouraged to buy from friends of a breeder who are committee members and who use underage sires and un-heart-tested parents. Many if not most would have used their studs at well under MVD protocol and SM guideline breeding age and the annual lists of litter registrations and the online pedigree databases reveal just how many dams are also bred at under the MVD protocol and SM guidelines.

Some of these people are club health representatives. Many are on their club committees. Some are prominent on the national club.

Their problem is that for all the bluster by some breeders publicly, there are pet owners who have the copies of the correspondence they sent, the MRI scans with the bad results, the cardiologist certs that show early onset MVD; the private email exchanges with some of these people that they saved and have sent on to people trying to work towards better breed health. There are online databases, from pedigrees to OFFA, and the puppy registration publications that make it easy to see who has been breeding outside the MVD protocol. There are the public statements these people have made over the years on email lists and boards that stand in clear contrast to the truth of certain matters (all saved by a few of us as a matter of public record, some of it submitted to the Parliamentary enquiries on dog breeding).

There are increasingly angry pet owners and decent breeders that do care who are sick and tired of the blatant lies from some of these people and their public manipulations. But it is harder and harder for those breeders who know they are covering up to control the information because of the internet. While there are obviously situations in which best efforts will produce affected dogs, the clear facts are that there are people choosing to pretend that SM doesn't exist as long as they don't test or 'see' it in their lines (the same people who mass-kennel their dogs and hardly could be aware of the dogs' day to day behaviours and sell the vast majority of puppies to pet people who never contact the breeder again), and choosing to breed anyway with dogs that should not be bred, and not informing people when they find their dog that produced several -- perhaps hundreds -- of litters turns out to have SM, even to the degree of limping around the show ring.

It's no surprise some have now started to tar and feather Sarah Blott's work with EBVs, because it eventually (it does take time for some!) sunk into their brains that that EBVs will reveal how poor their own lines have been on MRIs and/or heart certs. I always predicted it was only a matter of time til they started to claim they wouldn't follow the EBVs for this reason or that but the plain truth is -- they know they cannot hide from the results of past testing done on their lines and the genetics of EBVs won't lie.

That's why they get so overwrought on public forums -- it is a PR exercise.

I just feel sorry for those breeders who do work hard to address health issues as their efforts are a drop in the ocean compared to the approach of so many, including their own club reps in many cases.

[Bet]

Thanks Karlin for your Post.

It makes it all worth while about the Snide Remarks I have to take.

As you say it's such a pity for the Conscientious Cavalier Breeders who are doing their Best to help our Cavaliers have Healthier ,Longer Lives, but it's the others who are only paying Lip Service to the Cavalier Health Problems that are letting the Cavaliers down.

It never dawned on me when I was told that the person I was speaking to would'nt be involved in the EBV Scheme ,nor would other Cavalier Breeders ,could'nt make sense of the comment, now the reason has fallen into place.

In all this ,the only Sufferers are our Cavaliers. What is at the bottom of it , Egos or Money.

Bet(Hargreaves)

[Margaret C]

I find myself in a bit of a dilemma here.

I understand what Jess is feeling and is trying to achieve with her petition, but there are some inaccuracies which make it difficult for me to wholeheartedly agree with the way it is worded.

The Kennel Club has recently banned what is generally accepted by the term inbreeding ( mother to son, father to daughter, brother to sister matings )
However matings of close relatives ( line breeding ) are still allowed and are still very common. This practice is also detrimental to the health of any breed because it will narrow the gene pool and allows the spread of inherited health problems.

Cavaliers that are not suitable for showing are not culled. It is not necessary because any cavalier will make a marvellous family pet, and there is always a market for the puppies and young adults who do not make the grade in the show ring.

Syringomyelia is not really fatal and there are many dogs that live for many years with their SM symptoms controlled with painkillers.
Unfortunately there has also been many cavaliers euthanized because their pain could not be controlled.

There are many marvellous breeders that love their dogs, breed them with care, and enjoy showing them.
Unfortunately, as Karlin says, there is not enough of them to save this breed by themselves.

I would have hoped that a year after the film was shown there would have been more help from the KC ( health information sent out with registrations would make a start by informing non-cavalier club breeders about the problems in the breed )
There does not seem to be much news about the BVA/KC Heart & MRI scanning schemes. Foot dragging is rife within breed clubs and the KC when it comes to health matters.

I can confirm everything that Karlin says about the manipulation and deviousness of some of the best known breeders, who despite claiming they are breeding within the guidelines, that their clubs endorsed at the cavalier liaison meeting, are using underage dogs & bitches for breeding.
The Breed Record Supplement makes fascinating reading sometimes.

I cannot help but come to the conclusion that breeders like this do not care about the future of the cavalier breed nor the legacy their breeding practices will leave behind.

[Karlin]

Thanks for raising points on the wording of the petition. Perhaps the wording could be addressed?

I find it odd that basic information on SM and MVD (at least) has not been sent by the KC to all who register litters, particularly since they have argued ever since Pedigree Dogs Exposed that they must keep the door open to such people and encourage them to learn more and breed responsibly by not being restrictive on their breeding practices! Is the whole point then not to give them appropriate information on healthy breeding for their specific breed especially when there are concerns of such weight that the future of the breed is acknowledged to be a challenge?

At our own cost, some of us are already sending such information to vets. It is not a major cost to do so -- and one would think that given prices charged to register litters, costs could easily be absorbed for devising a brochure or packet of information and the price of a stamp, for health information to be returned to breeders with the registration documents?

[JessWhitfield]

Regarding the part about puppies being culled if they dont fit the specifications of the kennel club didnt necessarily mean with Cavaliers.
I meant more in general. I have heard of such things in other breeds.

Im afraid i wasnt aware of the developments restricting inbreeding.

If there is anything specific you would like me to change or anything you want me to add in. Please let me know.

Thanks again.

[tupup]

Margaret thank you for raising concerns about the wording here as i too have been in quite a dilemma, on one hand i want to support any or all efforts to improve health matters but on the other some of the wording has me concerned(im sorry Jess)
However i didnt have the courage to voice my concerns,so thanks again