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Is there something wrong with the Cavalier Chat forum?

tupup said:
But Di its all the fault of puppy farmers & BYBs-an excuse over there that covers anything & everything!
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IF one of you has purchased a cavalier from them and they aren't telling the truth--- pm them and tell them. I would.

As someone who has had almost 50 cavaliers in their home in the last 5 years (anyone else here???) some that they bought, some that they fostered and some that they bred???? I have to say that my numbers match theirs-- NONE I have bought have even a grade 1 patella-- not one that I have bred has had a grade 1 patella--- I've had a few fosters that had grade 2's and one that had a grade 4 and a grade 2. jmo- Sandy
 
WoodHaven said:
As someone who has had almost 50 cavaliers in their home in the last 5 years (anyone else here???) some that they bought, some that they fostered and some that they bred???? I have to say that my numbers match theirs-- NONE I have bought have even a grade 1 patella-- not one that I have bred has had a grade 1 patella--- I've had a few fosters that had grade 2's and one that had a grade 4 and a grade 2. jmo- Sandy
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Thats a lot of dogs, did they not have MVD or SM as well?
 
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SWEET! Hey Karlin, did you know that you and I are the same person? At least that is what we are being accused of in a new thread on C-C. Pretty cool trick, especially since we live in two different countries separated by a huge ocean! :sl*p: I guess I pushed someone's button. This is pretty interesting, especially when NO ONE reads this forum anyway.

Sorry, I do happen to have a sense of humor. I just don't have a BAD sense of humor. I prefer my jokes to be smart and creative. I have read some funny ones on C-C, BTW.

J.

I guess if I ever try to register on C-C, I will need to register under a different name.....how about "Jarlin". :rotfl:
 
:lol: Jay. As far as Cav Chat, if any of the public read the "remarks" they'll soon get the idea of the worth of those individuals and steer clear. I wouldn't discourage those individuals, let them dig their holes deeper IMHO.
 
Jay said:
SWEET! Hey Karlin, did you know that you and I are the same person? At least that is what we are being accused of in a new thread on C-C. Pretty cool trick, especially since we live in two different countries separated by a huge ocean! :sl*p:
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That doesn't surprise me as some time ago some persons thought I was Karlin or Karlin Father, and yes we are certainly in different countries seperated by huge oceans.
.
 
I'm questioning why I even bothered to look over there. I know that board just gets me in a lather, and that's why I quit reading it. Just read through now and my blood is just boiling.

Someone made a comment about the number of members here compared to the number who have reported SM in their dogs. Do you know why more people don't come out in full discussion? Because they are made to feel like idiots who are overreacting to a dog's behavior and are made to look like they've been brainwashed by Karlin.

I'm going to bet there are lot more people, like me, out here who just prefer to keep our issues private for fear of judgement (realize I am not going to be private about this anymore now :eek:).

Yes, we believe my Shelby has SM. But I am so grateful I had the information from this board so that I did not go naively along believing my girl has allergies, behavior issues or "funny little quirks". And thank God I am able to have an informed and intelligent discussion with my vet about our course of action. Two or three years ago, this would not have been the case.
 
Is there Something Wrong With The Cavalier Chat Forum?

Could I mention that there is Excellant Article in the latest Edition of DOGSTODAY by Jemima Harrison about Puppy Farms and BYB's.Somebody in this Thread about Puppy Farmers and BYB'S.

I guess all of us who have to bear the Brunt of the Vindictiveness and Viciousness of Remarks Hurled at us by some Cavalier Breeders,will know that we have Struck a Raw Nerve.

I think what has upset me more than anything else recently ,was when Cavalier Pet Owners turned on me on another List with their Vitriolic Remarks. I was told that they don't want to be told about the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed.

Well, Lucky Old Them, as the Saying goes.

Bet(Hargreaves)
 
Bet said:
Could I mention that there is Excellant Article in the latest Edition of DOGSTODAY by Jemima Harrison about Puppy Farms and BYB's.Somebody in this Thread about Puppy Farmers and BYB'S.
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Thanks for that Bet, I'll take a look.
 
Dear Margaret,...sorry for hijacking your thread! But the battle of forums continues. Oh well. I just feel the need to answer a few jabs, some directed at me directly. It is not my intention to impose my ideas on breeders how to run their breeding program. I don't want laws forcing breeders to do so either. All that I, personally, would want to see is that breeders follow the health guides that our own Cavalier clubs have implemented. I don't think that is asking too much, the Cavalier clubs own guidelines, the Cavaier clubs own rules.

In addition, there was a comment about me running to Momma because I was offended. No, I was not running to Momma. I was voicing my OPINION. I guess that the freedom of speech that they hold in such high regard only applies to people who agree with them. According to several CC members, I should not voice my opinion that a joke that was posted was in poor taste. Like I said before, many of the freedoms that they now enjoy in their lives were won with the help of American servicemen and women.

I guess all of us who have to bear the Brunt of the Vindictiveness and Viciousness of Remarks Hurled at us by some Cavalier Breeders,will know that we have Struck a Raw Nerve.
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Yep, Bet, sad but true. They are digging their hole and it just gets bigger and bigger. But I am through wasting my time with the likes of certain people.

On the other hand, I still maintain that there are some absolutely wonderful breeders on that list so I will continue to read the posts to learn from them. To those breeders, THANK YOU so much. This should not be an "us" against "them". I maintain a wonderful relationship with the breeder of my two dogs. I always keep her informed on how my dogs are doing.

Cathy, you and Shelby are in my prayers. I know how much you love both Jake and Shelby. I know that you will do everything possible for Shelby.

J.
 
tupup said:
But Di its all the fault of puppy farmers & BYBs-an excuse over there that covers anything & everything!
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isnt that just it, perfect, the problem such as sm doesnt affect only dogs from puppy farms, who on here brought their dog from a puppy farm, not many i doubt.

I did make a suggestion to someone who pm'ed me on cav chat, my idea was that if everyone who had a dog with sm, or even cm, to give me the kennel name and the contact detail i would put together a list of defective breeding breeders, and that in turn would mean maybe (but not def) the others had none that we know off thus creating a plausible list. Well i cant print the reply i got, di
 
Jay said:
SWEET! Hey Karlin, did you know that you and I are the same person? At least that is what we are being accused of in a new thread on C-C. Pretty cool trick, especially since we live in two different countries separated by a huge ocean! :sl*p: I guess I pushed someone's button. This is pretty interesting, especially when NO ONE reads this forum anyway.

Sorry, I do happen to have a sense of humor. I just don't have a BAD sense of humor. I prefer my jokes to be smart and creative. I have read some funny ones on C-C, BTW.

J.

I guess if I ever try to register on C-C, I will need to register under a different name.....how about "Jarlin". :rotfl:
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hehe, if karlin is so wrong and such an awful person, why are they so worried about why do they think anyone who is knowledgeable (sorry totally wrong) maybe karlin is cogneto, and why would she want to go on that forum anyway, apart from a good laugh. di
 
Di we did a poll recently in the SM section about where people had bought their SM dogs from, last time i looked at it the highest percentage were dogs bought from reputable breedersicon_whistling
 
I don't know a lot about this other forum, as I've not been on it, but I'm worried that what some of you seem to be saying is that the breeders on this other site are worse than puppy farmers? Is this true, becuase I thought that one should never support puppy farmers and that the dogs lived in appalling conditions and were sickly/unhealthy and over used for breeding etc.

Are you saying the breeders on the other forum do the same with their dogs? because if that is the case - where should I buy a puppy from, as I want to do soon as my other cavalier is now getting quite old (and has not health problems apart from old age)

I am now really worried from what is being said or implied.
 
Hi Yorkysue,
im not sure anyone is saying they are worse than PFs nor that they mistreat their dogs however a lot of the problems stem from their attitude to "Pet people" who seem to be held with distaste over there despite the fact that "pet people" will often im sure be their bread & butter
I think you'd be best going to take a look so you can form your own opinion as some of us here have been, lets say, spoken of unkindly over there in the past,& therefore are somewhat tired of the vitriol aimed our way:rolleyes:
Also Margaret C has done more to help us with affected dogs & to implement better health testing,fund raising etc than all of us & them put together & so to see her being treated so badly with no explanation is IMO disgraceful.
Perhaps someone else here can articulate this better than i:)
 
harleyfarley said:
isnt that just it, perfect, the problem such as sm doesnt affect only dogs from puppy farms, who on here brought their dog from a puppy farm, not many i doubt.

I did make a suggestion to someone who pm'ed me on cav chat, my idea was that if everyone who had a dog with sm, or even cm, to give me the kennel name and the contact detail i would put together a list of defective breeding breeders, and that in turn would mean maybe (but not def) the others had none that we know off thus creating a plausible list. Well i cant print the reply i got, di
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Oh I would love to see that reply.

I don't think that such a list would work. Every kennel will have produced cases of SM over the last few years, and often it will not be the breeders fault.

Still, it looks as if your fall from grace has been a very temporary one, you seem to be back as an approved user.

It appears no explanation is going to be given as to what I did to get removed with no warning.

Perhaps it was because I had taken the time to read the health research information over the last few years and I actually knew too many of the answers?
I have often wondered why breeders who have had no interest in health issues, and never attended any of the talks or seminars in the past, have suddenly put themselves forward as health representatives?
There is a theory that sometimes people take positions more to slow progress than to speed it.

I tried to see what Mark ( of Mark & Kelly ) had posted that warranted his expulsion but his last post seems to have been on using a machine for testing when a bitch is ready for mating?
I have never met the gentleman, but I know he has arranged special scanning trips from Devon to Chestergate, & driven the coach. Perhaps he too is a little too interested & pro-active in health matters?

The administrators on CavalierChat always appear so very uncomfortable when any one asks health related questions. Strange really when three of the four moderators are health representatives.

The CC forum is linked to a website that is called www.cavalierhealth.co.uk
Do go and have a look at what is not there........ no real health information, no summary of Simon Swift's latest talk, where he says MVD rates have not improved in eighteen years, no mention of Clare Rusbridge's site with the invaluable question & answer section.

It does have a lot of articles criticising PDE & denying the real extent of the SM health problem.

That website was set up after the Pedigree Dogs Exposed film was shown, probably with money from the £8,000 PR fund that the fourth moderator helped set up ( The reaction after the film was not to raise money for health research but to launch a worldwide appeal for money to pay for a Public Relations firm )

Another thread has started now, fascinating, but worrying to see that some breeders would prefer to have a dog with a 25% chance of a painful condition, rather than one that has another breed 14 generations back in the pedigree, but is disease free. Remember the Eugenics section in the documentary?
http://www.cavalierhealth.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=940
 
Yorkysue- The other forum is comprised mostly of breeders, where this one is mostly pet owners/ non-breeders. Both forums will give you lots of information and it's up to you what to do with the information.

Karlin (the admin and owner of this site) also runs an SM website, so there are many people on this forum who have dogs that have SM. There was a big film that aired last year and caused a lot of uproar as it brought to light many of the genetic issues in purebred dogs. Some breeders have chosen to move forward in finding solutions to the problems, and some have chosen to ignore and fight against them. It's up to you as a pet buyer to research the problems within the breed and find a breeder that you feel comfortable with; one that you actually like, AND one that you feel does the appropriate amount of testing on their breeding stock.

This site is about educating people to the possible problems and how to AVOID back-yard-breeders and mill dogs. There does seem to be a higher # of SM dogs coming from reputable breeders although there are no studies to prove it. HOWEVER...most other problems in Cavaliers (hearts, knees, hips, eyes, etc) are found in much greater numbers from dogs coming from puppy mills. No one is saying the "reputable" breeders are worse than puppy mills. If that is the impression that is being left with those who have not been regulars on this site, we may all want to take a step back and think twice about what we say. Just know that there are personality/ morality conflicts between SOME of the two groups of regulars that visit both sites and that's something you need to keep in mind when reading through the bickering. (y)
 
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tupup said:
Di we did a poll recently in the SM section about where people had bought their SM dogs from, last time i looked at it the highest percentage were dogs bought from reputable breedersicon_whistling
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oh that poll, yes my dog was one of those ones too. yes you can see that the most dogs and all dogs i know are from very reputable breeders and they all have sm or h.d or something hereitary wrong with with them. so if breeder stuck to a breeding protocol then a lot of these hereditary problems would be in a minority and maybe only showing up in old age, as it is we are going to lucky to get any old age cavaliers. di
 
Nicki said:
The thread is here

http://board.cavaliertalk.com/showthread.php?t=30915&page=2
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This is stating there are 25 cases if SM on this list of thousands who can reply. Of those, there are 17 from reputable breeders (which is an undefined term). Are all 25 cases verified by MRI? AND to make this all the more convoluted-- I wonder how many people have cavaliers that are being treated for allergies that actually have SM itching? The steroids etc.. could make the itching of either SM or allergies less severe, thinking it was a proper dx.
 
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