help please: tucker and mvd

[Bet]

Just to say ,that if Tucker has a Murmur, not all is gloom and doom , I have collected the ages for many years of Long Lived Cavaliers, also about 400 pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble,

Quite a number of those Cavaliers with an early Heart Murmur ,lived onto a good age , what was noticeable ,was how often those Cavaliers had Long Lived Ancestors in their Pedigree Background.

[WoodHaven]

I suggest that you take a look at http://cavalierhealth.org/mitral_valve_disease.htm There is nothing unusual about a Cavalier developing a mitral valve murmur at 4 years of age. Statistically, about 40% of Cavaliers are expected to develop murmurs by that age.

Quite a few people keep bringing this old % up.
It didn't reflect that way in a recent UK heart clinic and it didn't at our heart clinic.
While I had the poor board certified cardiologists at my whim, I grilled him about what he's seen in the last few years in terms of cavalier heart health and he said he has seen some positive improvement. This doctor has kept records for at least the seven years I've had him at our clinics. He is doing the CMW clinic next week.

[Bet]

Sandy, but you must know that at the recent UK CKCS CLUB AGM the Cardiologist mentioned that 50% of Cavaliers will have a Heart Murmur at 5 years of age ,that this is no better than it was 18 years ago. This is here in Britain.

Also the UK CKCS CLUB have said recently that MVD is the NO 1 Health Priority in the Cavalier Breed ,that the Kennel Club, have also recently mentioned that MVD is the Biggest Killer of Cavaliers.

That the UK CKCS CLUB have just announced on the UK CKCS CLUB Web Site, that NO Cavalier Puppy can be being Advertised on the Cavalier Puppy Register if the Parents have not been Heart or Eye Tested

This Form can be seen at.

www.thecavalierclub.co.uk

I still feel there is an attitude amongst some Cavalier Breeders , particularly after reading a Post on another List, that the Cavaliers are not an Unhealthy Breed as some would have the Public believe.

Why do some Cavalier Breeders not face up to the Facts. ?

[Karlin]

I think anecdotal evidence from a cardiologist probably is skewed towards results from the breeders who actually bother to cardio test and are already working for better heart stats. I wish cardio testing was standard for all cavaliers, or that someone would do a clinical sample study... to procuce some accurate figures. It would be wonderful if there were real improvements.

But certainly taking my own anecdotal evidence from rescue, at least half of the dogs I get in that are age 5-up have murmurs strong enough for a vet to easily pick them up. I've had dogs as young as three with serious murmurs.

However, if the UK club is now claiming much better results at cardio clinics, consider on the other hand that some key people, including the club secretary, is noting elsewhere the neurologists doing the majority of the club MRI scanning are telling them that 50% of cavaliers on club-organised days have syrinxes... so perhaps the club needs to be noting that syringomyelia is the breed's leading health problem, not MVD? Indeed those statistics are particularly alarming, because (unlike with hearts) breeders in the UK are by and large testing only relatively young dogs for this progressive disease, eg their breeding dogs and even younger. There's very few MRId that would be over 5 and thus a 50% affected rate for dogs under 5 is pretty shocking -- as bad as what they are now saying are outdated statistics for MVD...

So therefore: shouldn't they be changing their health concern emphasis to syringomyelia if there's truly such improvement in MVD...?

[Bet]

As Karlin has mentioned SM is Problem in our Breed ,let's hope that at the next UK CKCS CLUB AGM ,it will be passed that there will be Breeding Guide-lines for this Insidious Disease. .

[WoodHaven]

I think anecdotal evidence from a cardiologist probably is skewed towards results from the breeders who actually bother to cardio test and are already working for better heart stats. I wish cardio testing was standard for all cavaliers, or that someone would do a clinical sample study... to procuce some accurate figures. It would be wonderful if there were real improvements.

But certainly taking my own anecdotal evidence from rescue, at least half of the dogs I get in that are age 5-up have murmurs strong enough for a vet to easily pick them up. I've had dogs as young as three with serious murmurs.

However, if the UK club is now claiming much better results at cardio clinics, consider on the other hand that some key people, including the club secretary, is noting elsewhere the neurologists doing the majority of the club MRI scanning are telling them that 50% of cavaliers on club-organised days have syrinxes... so perhaps the club needs to be noting that syringomyelia is the breed's leading health problem, not MVD? Indeed those statistics are particularly alarming, because (unlike with hearts) breeders in the UK are by and large testing only relatively young dogs for this progressive disease, eg their breeding dogs and even younger. There's very few MRId that would be over 5 and thus a 50% affected rate for dogs under 5 is pretty shocking -- as bad as what they are now saying are outdated statistics for MVD...

So therefore: shouldn't they be changing their health concern emphasis to syringomyelia if there's truly such improvement in MVD...?

I brought in pets, show dogs, older dogs and a rescue. The 8 year old rescue was cleared AGAIN. Our club has a number of people with pets that bring them every other year to get their hearts checked.

You are right-- dogs bred on puppy farms aren't going to have the most stellar background. We have once taken in a pregnant 10 year old that had a terrible murmur. Some people just don't care.

I know someone that helped the club show out east asked their cardio if HE had seen improvement and HE said yes.

The MRI for SM is very invasive. I'd do all mine (not just breeding potentials)-- and multiple times if they could figure out a way to do it and make it easier on the dogs. My neuro does a 15-20 minute work up on the dog before the test-- he wants a full blood screening (they are out for about an hour) - he will only do a maximum of 4 in a day. All said and done the cost is now about 2000.00USD. I do know the neuro they used on Denali only charges about half that.

We are never going to cure MVD--we are working on delaying the onset and slowing the progression. IT may always be the number one thing that finally kills a cavalier.

Back to bathing dogs..

[Love my Cavaliers]

Hi Karen. I was out of town all weekend so couldn't respond earlier. I don't know what the rosemary does, but that was one of the first things Oz's breeder suggested for him. You have to grind it fine with a mortar and pestle otherwise it just goes right through them (or so I've been told). Don't know if there is anything to it, but it's a simple thing to do, so I do it.

[diddy]

Hi Bev. Rosemary is used as an aid to digestion, and improving liver function. Its also used for strengthening the heart and calming palpitations. It strengthens the memory by improving the blood flow to the head and stimulatring the nervous system.

[Love my Cavaliers]

Thank you Diddy. I appreciate your response. Now I feel a little less of a dummy!

[Karen and Ruby]

Hi Bev. Rosemary is used as an aid to digestion, and improving liver function. Its also used for strengthening the heart and calming palpitations. It strengthens the memory by improving the blood flow to the head and stimulatring the nervous system.

Oh great thanks diddy!!
Ill definatly try that then!

Karen