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talking to Cavalier owners

jacies

Well-known member
Hi, where I walk my dogs is a very popular lakeside circuit and we get to meet lots of other dogs every day, quite a number of them being Cavaliers. We always stop and talk and particularly as Chaos is usually in her stroller she attracts a lot of attention.
Yesterday we met a lady with a 12 week old black and tan puppy and I asked her where she had got her. She said she had seen an advert in the pet shop and got him from a local person. I told her about Chaos having SM and she had never heard of it although she said she had had Cavaliers before with heart problems. I explained the symptoms so that she would be aware of them because if I had known about SM I would have realised years before that Chaos did not have fleas or hated her coat etc.
Today, I met another lady who had two 2 year old Cavaliers and she had not heard of SM either.
My question is, do you think I am doing the right thing discussing SM with Cavalier owners? After that TV programme quite a number of people with other breeds of dogs that I meet have heard of it.
Judy
 
If I had known about SM, Riley would probably have been diagnosed years before she was. So, I would have liked to know about it. I don't think it hurts to give somebody the info that they can tuck away in their brain, hopefully to never use again. But, if their dog does starts showing symptoms later on down the road, maybe they will recall the conversation and get help sooner.
 
You are absolutely right in telling people you meet about SM. So many Cavaliers go undiagnosed and suffer for so long when owners and vets are baffled as to their behavior. I'm amazed at how many people I meet with Cavaliers who don't know what MVD is.....much less SM. So I try to enlighten owners whenever I can. I think it is our responsibility as responsible pet owners to educate people about the breed.
 
I would agree that it is important to talk to other cavalier owners about both SM and MVD as cavaliers are very much drawn to recognizing there own breed we have met lots of people over the years and all have spoken about MVD, we have met a number of owners over the summer months on holiday and while out and about, and have had general chats about health, I was quite shocked in recent months to talk to owners that had young cavaliers and did`nt know what SM was, I found this very worrying.
 
I think information is always helpful. Your information may save some other owner years of confusion and anguish and their dog, months or years of pain. But I think it is all in how it is discussed -- eg not as a way of scaring but informing owners. (y) I always go through MVD and SM along with other breed-related issues with homes taking my rescue cavaliers. I have never yet had anyone say they had changed their mind or obsess over their dog getting it. I think responsible breeders and rescues should go through all such issues with new owners and discussing breed concerns is a natural enough conversation between cavalier owners, if you meet someone with a cavalier.
 
Talking to Cavalier Owners.

I agree with everything that's been said in the Previous Posts.

I would also say when talking to others about the SM Problem in Cavaliers, emphasis how important it is when getting a Cavalier ,to see a Certificate showing that the Cavalier Breeder has MRI Scanned her Breeding Stock.

I really do think it's up to us Pet Owner Lovers of Cavaliers to get this message across to the Public ,that when wanting to buy a Cavalier always ask to see a Certificate from the Cavalier Breeder to prove that Health Tests are being carried by the Breeder .

With the Membership at 4,000 on this List now, what a great chance we have got.
 
I too agree with everything above, I thought I had researched the breed before I got Molly and Dougall, I was very aware of the heart and eye problems but had never heard of sm until I saw it on Pedigree Dogs Exposed! When I saw this tv programme I thought we could never be this unlucky. We were unlucky with both Molly and Dougall. If I had know about sm sooner both dogs would have been diagnosed earlier. I always talk to Cavalier Owners when I meet them and gently discuss this disease without appearing to be a woman obsessed :eek:. So yes I think people should be made aware.
 
Even though Winston isn't a Cavailer, he's a Pug, talk away. ANY small skulled dog can have SM. I researched Pugs almost to death, and *nothing in my research came up with SM. PDE, eye problems, breathing problems, luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, overcrowded jaws, non stop shedding, all those, but nothing about SM. It wasn't until Winston was diagnosed with SM that I'd ever heard about the disease. I wish someone had told me that any small skulled dog can get it. Talk away, the more educated an owner of any dog is, the better.
 
If I had known about SM, Riley would probably have been diagnosed years before she was. So, I would have liked to know about it. I don't think it hurts to give somebody the info that they can tuck away in their brain, hopefully to never use again. But, if their dog does starts showing symptoms later on down the road, maybe they will recall the conversation and get help sooner.

It does sometimes seem unkind to worry owners about their pets, but there are so many dogs that suffer because people think that SM symptoms are just their pet's "funny quirky little ways"

There were many SM dogs diagnosed & given pain relief because of the PDE film.
For the sake of the dogs, owners do need to know about the problems in the breed
 
Talking to Cavalier Owners.

Could I just mention that the UK Parliamentary Enquiry will be Published on November 2.

It has already announced that it has found serious problems in Pedigree Dogs.

We Pet Cavalier Owners who have been Broken Hearted because of the suffering of our Cherished Cavaliers,do hope that particular notice will have been paid by the Parliamentary Committee to the Two serious Health Problems afflicting Cavaliers, SM and MVD.
 
Broken-Hearted'

Bet,
Please remember that Pet-owners do NOT have a monopoly on being 'Broken-Hearted' . I have recently lost my 7 year-old Ruby dog, Red Alert to MVD.
I still have his mother, auntie,(almost 12) and until recently his grandmother(she was 14).
No heart meds there.
I bred him, so I do not apportion 'blame'. The buck stops right here.
What did I do wrong?
Nothing. These things happen in life. It seems all wrong to me but these things must be coped with.
Life does not always give us what we want but we must be brave enough to soldier on - again and again.
IMO there is nothing productive about apportioning blame; to do so simply eats way at you and prevents you moving on.
Yes, I held him in my arms and looked into his eyes as he went; yes, I watched his tail wag until it could wag no more..................
Yes, I am a breeder - his breeder - and I am broken-hearted . Breeders bleed too....
Elspeth Glen, Sandbrae CKCS, Scotland
 
Talking to Cavalier Owners

My complaint is with those Cavalier Breeders who have known for years about the MVD Heart Problem in the Cavalier Breed ,yet persisted to claim ,Heart Trouble what Heart Trouble!!! and continue to Breed from Cavaliers with a Heart or SM conditions.

I think we all know what the UK CKCS CLUB Chairman has said recently on this subject.

Hopefully when the APGAW 's Recommendations are revealed on November 2, a number of Cavalier Breeders Minds will be being Focused on how Cavalier Breeding should be carried out.
 
Talking to Cavalier Owners.

Forgot to say this, I sure will Move on when all Cavalier Breeders are forced to do Mandatory Health Testing for MVD and SM ,so that our Cavaliers will have the chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives.Thank goodness there are now other Cavalier Owners with similar views as mine .

Never thought I would see on the UK CKCS CLUB WEB SITE ,that if a Cavalier Breeder want's to have their Cavalier Puppy on the CKCS Puppy Register , a form has to be completed saying asto whether the Sire and Dam of the Puppy has a Current Health Certificate for both MVD and Eyes.

Hopefully it won't be long before SM will be included in this List.
 
Since losing 'Patrick' I have spoken at great length to my local Cardiologist, in an effort to find out a reason for his untimely death and, as one does in such circumstances, if there was anything I might have done differently.

I am now more convinced than ever, that all cavaliers are genetically programmed to develop MVD, I also believe the same to be true for Syringomyelia.

As I see it, our efforts should now be focussed on finding out why some dogs develop early onset in both diseases, while others do so much later in life, and some, not at all.

This leads us on to an area of extremely complicated genetics which has become the focus of much recent research and was well-documented via the 2 recent programmes broadcast on BBC2 on the Twins.

Best Wishes,
Elspeth Glen
 
Bet,
Please remember that Pet-owners do NOT have a monopoly on being 'Broken-Hearted' . I have recently lost my 7 year-old Ruby dog, Red Alert to MVD.
I still have his mother, auntie,(almost 12) and until recently his grandmother(she was 14).
No heart meds there.
I bred him, so I do not apportion 'blame'. The buck stops right here.
What did I do wrong?
Nothing. These things happen in life. It seems all wrong to me but these things must be coped with.
Life does not always give us what we want but we must be brave enough to soldier on - again and again.
IMO there is nothing productive about apportioning blame; to do so simply eats way at you and prevents you moving on.
Yes, I held him in my arms and looked into his eyes as he went; yes, I watched his tail wag until it could wag no more..................
Yes, I am a breeder - his breeder - and I am broken-hearted . Breeders bleed too....
Elspeth Glen, Sandbrae CKCS, Scotland

Very well said Ms. Glen--
I too have had heartbreak and worry that started right at my feet.
I followed the MVD and SM protocol to the letter and got 2 pups with full fledged SM. Both parents MRI'd -- both parents hail and healthy TODAY. Actually the Sire is 10 -- the grandsire 12+ and great grand sire 14+ // ALL MRI'd clear.
Condolences on your loss.
 
Thank you Sandy, and mine to you. As breeders, we will keep trying, in the hope that one day we will get it ALL right.
Elspeth
 
I followed the MVD and SM protocol to the letter and got 2 pups with full fledged SM.
That could possibly happen with Hereditary Diseases where DNA testing is NOT available, yes even in regards to MVD, SM/CM, Hip Dysplasia plus a number of other Hereditary Diseases, but I think it tends to be an exception rather than what generally applies.

All the more reason that the focus should be on finding the genes and developing a definitive DNA test that is cost effective and readily available to everyone.

In regards to Legal Liability in some countries, I think that a breeder's defence in case a court case eventuated is to have the appropriate specialist health testing certificates and to have bred according to specialist recommended breeding protocols.
.
 
That could possibly happen with Hereditary Diseases where DNA testing is NOT available, yes even in regards to MVD, SM/CM, Hip Dysplasia plus a number of other Hereditary Diseases, but I think it tends to be an exception rather than what generally applies.

All the more reason that the focus should be on finding the genes and developing a definitive DNA test that is cost effective and readily available to everyone.

In regards to Legal Liability in some countries, I think that a breeder's defence in case a court case eventuated is to have the appropriate specialist health testing certificates and to have bred according to specialist recommended breeding protocols.
.

2 out of 2 pups. Quite an exception. I tend to believe (maybe erroneously) that different lines carry different parts of the issue and if you get them all-- you get the disease (also that bad gene combinations just happen)
This was a total outcross-- very low COI 4.5641 .
 
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Sandy, where I am many have discussed Hereditary Diseases for many years and we have come to the point where State Government Codes of Practice is stepping in with things like breeders should provide Health Certificates when they sell or give away a puppy or kitten, and I have even seen the word MUST used by another State Government where they have Legislation and Codes of Practice regarding Hereditary Diseases for dogs and cats. This is new and it is happening now, and as I previously mentioned, I think that a breeder's defence in case a court case eventuated is to have the appropriate specialist health testing certificates and to have bred according to specialist recommended breeding protocols.
.
 
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