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Thread: Has the Appearance of Cavaliers Altered in the Last 30 Years.

  1. #11
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    I thought to start at the stop between the eyes and finish at the tip of the nose.
    Rubys BTW is 1.65 inches

    Its strange as I know weve had discussions on here before about whether head shape depicts prevalence of SM and I think (If I recall correctly) that its the internal room and the back of the skull that has more to do with it than shape on its own.
    For instance the KC standard says "skull, almost flat between the ears"- Rubes couldnt be more flat HOWEVER the actual length of the skull stops very abruptly inline with where her ears finish. To my eye it seems too short for her size although it is wide as her head is relatively large.
    When I look at the domed heads being shown in todays rings it seems the KC standard is being largely ignored.
    On the KC website they have started a 'breed watch' online service which is used to highlight concerns brought forward by judges and breed clubs about breed standards and health concerns.
    There is currently nothing listed under the Cavalier section.

    I do believe that judges should have to regroup at least once a year to make sure they are all working to the same page and that the KC should monitor prizes more closely. Who regulates these people?

    Karen

    Ruby - my stunning soul mate who defies the odds every day
    Charlie- my angel at heart and devil at play


  2. #12
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    Default Has The Appearanceof Cavaliers Alteredin the Last 30 Years.

    Champion Crisdig Buttons was mentioned on the Cavalier Chat Site as being a great specimen of a Cavalier ,

    I so much agree with this Statement,she had ,in my opinion ,not the Short Legs ,Long Back ,Smaller Pretty Face as is seen in many of to-days Cavaliers,in fact her Head is Broad, Strong Looking, not Effminate .

    At least my opinions have been noted ,and there is agreement that that there has been a change in the Cavalier Breed.

    For a wee bit of interest of those Lovers of Cavaliers,

    CH .CRISDIG BUTTONS,was Blenheim ,born 9-12-67,her Breeder/Owner ,Mrs Burgess.

    Ch Crisdig Buttons lived to 14 years of age,she had a Litter.

    Ch Crisdig Florida
    Ch Crisdig Prospect
    Crisdig M'Buttons
    All Cavaliers those had clear Hearts at 12 years of age


    Crisdig M'Buttons lived to 15.
    I was given this information by Mrs Burgess


    Ch Crisdig Button's sire

    Ch,Crisdig Merry Matelot

    Dam

    Crisdig Trinket

    The Grand- Sire of Ch Crisdig Buttons,Ch Crisdig Celebration lived to 15 years ,and Grand -Dam, Ch Vairire Charmaine of Crisdig also lived to 15.
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  3. #13
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    From Dr Rusbridge's website (this would mesh with the conslusions of the foetal tissue research project, the genome scan progress so far, and some recent published papers on skull volume now linked from Dr Rusbridge's website:

    What causes Chiari-like malformation (CM)?
    CM is not yet fully understood. Somehow the miniaturisation process in the Cavalier went awry and unlike many other toy breeds the brain did not decrease in size in proportion with the skull. The Cavalier appears to have a brain more appropriate for a bigger dog. Studies in the Griffon Bruxellois (Rusbridge et al 2009) have suggested that CM in this breed is characterised by a short skull base. This shortening results in an compensatory increase in the size of some of the other skull bones meaning that the forebrain is adequately accommodated however there is no compensatory increase in size of the back of the skull meaning that there is not enough room for the cerebellum and brain stem.
    From: http://www.veterinary-neurologist.co.uk/part1.htm#4
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Leo Lily Tansy Libby (foster) Mindy (foster)
    In memory: Lucy
    Cavalier SM Infosite:www.smcavaliers.com

  4. #14
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    Default has The Appearance of Cavaliers Altered in the Last 30 Years

    Thank you Karlin for your Post, it sure makes up for the Bashing I have received from the Cyber Bullies in the past couple of days on the Cavalier Chat List.I won't be holding my Breath to get an Apology from them ,but it would be nice though ,if they had the decency to give me one.

    I have been vindicated after all.

    That with the Foetal Tissue Research Project ,The Genome Scan Progress so far, ,and some recent Published on Skull Volumn, there is information,that there HAS been Miniaturisation Process in our Cavalier Breed ,this has gone Awry ,and this is the important statement ,unlike many other Toy Breeds the Cavaliers Brain DID NOT Decrease in size in Proportion with the Cavaliers Skull,.

    The Cavalier appears to have a Brain more appropriate for Bigger Dog

    Now to the question that must be being asked from all the Broken Hearted Owners of Cavaliers suffering from SM, will the Cavalier Breeders Bite the Bullet and now go for Cavaliers who have not been Miniaturised, will that be a step too far for some of them, will a different appearance of Cavalier not have a chance of winning in the Show Ring.

    Hopefully the Cavalier Breeders won't go down the same path as the Breeders of Rhodesian Ridge-backs, and Dalmations.

    Time will tell.
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  5. #15
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    Default Has The Appearanceof Cavaliers Altered in the Last 30 years.

    Could I mention I said in my previous Post, ,that in Dr C Rusbridge's Neurological Web Site,

    Quote

    Somehow the Miniaturisation process in the Cavalier went awry, and unlike many other Toy Breeds the Brain did not decrease in size in proportion with the Skull .

    As Dr McGonnell has mentioned,in the normal situation ,if the Brain was growing too fast ,the Bone should keep up with it .

    In the CKCS this relationship is lost .

    About a couple of years ago, I sent Dr McGonnell photos of Present day Cavaliers and Photos of the Older type Cavalier ,just to let her see the difference in the their Heads.

    I received word back from her ,thanking me for doing this.
    Bet (Hargreaves)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bet View Post
    Hopefully the Cavalier Breeders won't go down the same path as the Breeders of Rhodesian Ridge-backs, and Dalmations.

    Time will tell.
    Can you explain this quote...I have been reading information about the dalmation low uric acid backcross experiment...they have done a great job of limiting the problem but not changing the breed standard. You can find more info here http://www.luadalmatians.com/

    From what I understand UK is ready to reinstate these "not pure" dogs into the registry. AKC has a long way to go but I think if enough money was thrown at them they would concede.

    Every breed changes through the years to match what is popular at the time we can blame the judges that give the ribbons and the breeder that chase the ribbon. Health should be a great concern of any breed and the ultimate goal. IMO.

    Anyway, excellent read.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinekisses View Post
    Can you explain this quote...I have been reading information about the dalmation low uric acid backcross experiment...they have done a great job of limiting the problem but not changing the breed standard. You can find more info here http://www.luadalmatians.com/

    From what I understand UK is ready to reinstate these "not pure" dogs into the registry. AKC has a long way to go but I think if enough money was thrown at them they would concede.

    Every breed changes through the years to match what is popular at the time we can blame the judges that give the ribbons and the breeder that chase the ribbon. Health should be a great concern of any breed and the ultimate goal. IMO.

    Anyway, excellent read.
    The DCA has to agree to it first and I was told it won't anytime in the near future. So let's not blame the AKC yet.
    There are certain procedures that must be followed. A number of them weren't. When asked for the paperwork and documentation -- it was very much lacking.
    The high uric acid 'can' be problematic in a dalmatian-- NOT always and they are doing a study now to determine why some live with it fine and some get stones. fwiw, Sandy

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodHaven View Post
    The DCA has to agree to it first and I was told it won't anytime in the near future. So let's not blame the AKC yet.
    There are certain procedures that must be followed. A number of them weren't. When asked for the paperwork and documentation -- it was very much lacking.
    The high uric acid 'can' be problematic in a dalmatian-- NOT always and they are doing a study now to determine why some live with it fine and some get stones. fwiw, Sandy
    hmmm, interesting...well not having proper paperwork would be a problem.

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