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The Cavalier Recreation Project

Primarily, we need people willing to breed their own Cocker Spaniel to a Papillon. :eek:



Has she got this wrong?

Nanette
 
So many things wrong here that I don't even know where to begin.

Here is an anonymous, naive, 23 year old novice dog owner with a poorly written (free) website and a not very well thought out idea and subsequent plan. She is probably a very nice, sincere young lady, but that doesn't mean a thing in this endeavor.

I had cockers in the 70's and 80's, and the many, many problems in that breed caused me to turn to Cavaliers in the late 80's. (And as many of you know, I've been blessed with nine healthy, long-living Cavaliers in the past 20 years.) There are so many more problems in cocker spaniels than were covered in "requirements" for use as breeding stock in this plan. Does this person know anything about inherited DCM in cocker spaniels? Does this person know what DCM even is?? Who passes judgment on the temperament of the stock - only the owner? Why the choice of cockers and paps? Just because one might "guess" that offspring MIGHT look like a (poorly bred) Cavalier......or not. Why would I want a cocker/pap mix? The end result may be some "new" breed (or not) but it's not going to be a Cavalier. Temperament certainly will not be "Cavalier." Why would the owners/breeders of good cocker/pap breeding stock want to cross their animals with another breed? They don't care anything about re-creating Cavaliers. Likely the only people willing to participate would be pet owners with dubious quality animals.

It's as if I decided that humans should explore outer space and I started a project with no knowledge, expertise or background in physics, aerospace engineering, etc. (Not a great analogy, but you get the idea.) No one could even check my credentials because I only give my first name on my free website??!!

If anyone is going to "re-create" the Cavalier, I strongly suspect that it will be experienced breeders.

My intention is not to criticize this unknown person, but to criticize the plan and methodology. I just do not see any merit here at all. It's just like all of the reasoning we hear about designer dogs being more healthy which we know isn't valid. By the way, did you see the advertising on this site for Cavachons, etc.? (On a free site you must accept the advertising.) How is this helping the Cavalier breed?

If I want a chance at having a relatively healthy, long-living Cavalier, I know what to do and who to contact. Never a 100% guarantee, but I've been around long enough and done my homework. I would also consider other breeds - but I wouldn't consider a cocker or a pap!

With all sincerity,

Pat
 
Forgot to say that this person needs to understand the difference between "re-creation" and "recreation" or the site will attract folks looking for a resort spa. Attention to detail is critical for a website to be taken seriously. (Consider Rod's Cavalier Health site - which is meticulous - and compare that site to others.)

Pat
 
Clairelou said:
Prompted by a mention of this by Karen (and Ruby) I did a google and found this, anyone know how this is progressing?
Click to expand...
I don't think it is progressing at all but on the chance there might be I think it might only involve a handful of Cavalier people. From what I see officially there is absolutely no move towards something like this by any Cavalier Club around the world.

What does appear official and current for MVD and SM/CM is that Clubs "recommend" that breeders use specialist health testing and specialist recommended breeding protocols/guidelines.

Also what appears offical and current is that DNA samples are being collected and sent to find the genes for MVD and SM/CM and to develop cost effective DNA screening tests. DNA samples not used for the genetic study are being stored plus more are being added each day.

Also and being setup is an Estimated Breeding Values (EBV) Program which utilises the current means of testing. When the genes are found then that program will become a Genomic Breeding Values (geBVs) Program where all the stored DNA samples will be tested and the results inputed into the program. In the UK Geneticists involved with this already have gone to the Cavalier Clubs to give talks about the program to the breeders. For some information about this have a look at this webpage on the UK Cavalier Club’s website.
http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/health/ebv/call_for_data.html

Facility is being made so that breeders can access the program via a software internet interface, via this link are some screen capture photos which give some more information about the program.
http://www.cavaliercampaign.com/ebv.htm

Meanwhile Cavalier Clubs around the world have got a close eye on this program to see what happens, also so have the UK Kennel Club and some other Breed Clubs as they might like to use such a program for other breeds and their health concerns.
.
 
Pat said:
Forgot to say that this person needs to understand the difference between "re-creation" and "recreation" or the site will attract folks looking for a resort spa. Attention to detail is critical for a website to be taken seriously. (Consider Rod's Cavalier Health site - which is meticulous - and compare that site to others.)

Pat
Click to expand...
Pat I understand what you mean and Rod's site is an excellent informative site.
.
 
haha, I thought it was going to be a website about all the fun places we could take our Cavaliers! :rolleyes:
 
Clairelou said:
Didn't think it looked 'official' ;)
Click to expand...
Talking about 'official', it appears that the EBV Program is officially on hold where it appears that publishing right and legal matters appear to be more important than health matters concerning the breed. I think that in the current climate that things should be sorted out one way or another and the sooner the better.
.
 
EddyAnne said:
Talking about 'official', it appears that the EBV Program is officially on hold where it appears that publishing right and legal matters appear to be more important than health matters concerning the breed. I think that in the current climate that things should be sorted out one way or another and the sooner the better.
.
Click to expand...


This really makes my heart sink. Where did you read it is officially on hold?
 
Margaret, I am all for the EBV Program and I hope that what I just posted about legal matters and publishing rights is a load of rubbish.
.
 
Lol. Cavalier Recreation Project! Thought the same as some of you, thought we were getting a our version of a puppy park like our US friends.


The site looks very unprofessional; by using something like freewebs or the authors particular site..
Have they quoted any specific evidence used in there Project?
No veternairian evidence of this. Or genetic therapy etc...

:crash:
 
When I posted the message I referred to my notes from the last Seminar held in the Spring of this year after the AGM of the Scottish Club.
S Blott was asked the question: when can we expect to have the EBvs available?

In my notes I have written: "S would like EBVs to be available to all, and had considered the prospect of publishing same on a list for breeders. When this was proposed, there arose some legal difficulties over the publication of results which would require owner consent".
'Rubbish' I think not.

I am interested, also, as to how a non-breeder would be able to use such information, since, a single dog's EBV is only of use when combined with the EBV of the bitch to whom it is proposed to mate it.
Elspeth
 
Elspeth what you mentioned goes back to Spring. How long does it take to type out a consent form, photocopy it for all then mail them out and/or make the form available as a download on the club's website. Then within a week or two Sarah Blott may have most of the signed consent forms and that is providing if many wanted it so. As I mentioned, I think that in the current climate that things should be sorted out one way or another and the sooner the better.
.
 
I would suggest you put your question to S Blott.
She is an extremely intelligent lady, so, had things been that simplistic, I am sure she would have thought of it.
Elspeth
 
EddyAnne,

I was at the same Dr S Blott's Seminar here in Scotland in the Spring as Murphy, and the answer she gave was 2 years. .

Now here's food for thought ,the Kennel Club ,in the Summer made an announcement about their New Genetic Project Unit,and the EBV Research ,which would take around 5 years for results to come through.

Why ,if it is to be for the Cavaliers 2 years hence, was this not discovered before now,surely this should have been known about before the Research work started.

I know when I heard Dr S Blott mention the EBV Scheme,I had heard about the EBV Scheme for Cattle , and I contacted the head of that Department, and was told that the Department had to contact every Farmer in Britain before that EBV Scheme could progress.

So will it be the same for the Cavaliers' EBV Scheme ,will every Cavalier Breeder have to be being contacted before there can be information given out about their Cavaliers' Pedigrees.

I think it's some-thing to do with the DATA PROTECTION ACT.
 
Murphy said:
I would suggest you put your question to S Blott.
She is an extremely intelligent lady, so, had things been that simplistic, I am sure she would have thought of it.
Elspeth
Click to expand...
Elspeth, if there are any problems or if any information is needed regarding the EBV Program then I really do feel that it is the Cavalier Clubs which should be contacting Sarah Blott and then the Clubs to inform their members. Such as like what has happened before.
Example - 3 representatives from the Club went to visit Sarah Blott to discuss the EBV program then members were informed and this was even mentioned on the Club's website as see via this link.
http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/health/ebv/feb_09_update.html

Keep in mind that if there are any problems then maybe the Cavalier Clubs might be able to provide some assistance to Sarah Blott in overcoming the problems.
.
 
Bet I can see 2 or more years to obtain results from an EBV program but in getting such a program started and running I do not think it would take too long, and to draw up and sign consent forms well I already mentioned that.
.
 
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