13th November 2009, 07:30 PM
Thanks to CAROL F.
I have just read Carol's letter in Dog World's Letter Page to-day.
She has headed it ,don't Dismiss the Views of the Pet Owning Public.
It is in answer to Caroline Kisko ,Secretary ,of the Kennel Club,as Carol mentioned , making disparaging comments towards Pet Owners who contributed to the APGAW REPORT.
One of C Kisko's insults towards Pet Owners ,was ,she objected to individuals with no expertise getting the same profile as Breed Clubs who know what they are talking about.
A further insult of C Kisko's towards Pet Owners was her remark ,that one Bad Experience does not make some -one an Expert.
All I can say about that remark ,is where are the Cavalier Breeder Experts, who have let our Cavalier Breed get into the Dire Straits it's in to-day with the MVD and SM Problems.Where has their Experience Been.
OK many are beating their Breasts, saying ,look what we are now doing ,but where were they ,20 years ago when they were being warned about the MVD Problem in Cavaliers.
Carol's Letter had an interesting conclusion, that Pet Owners are dismissed as not knowing what they are Talking about ,and not qualified to have an equal Profile with Breeders or Breed Clubs
Possibly this is because ,as Carol goes onto say ,up until now we have operated as Individuals and perhaps the Time has come to create an Official Orginisation of our Own.
I sure would Second That!!
13th November 2009, 09:25 PM
Are these articles/letters available on-line? If so, where? Based upon Bet's reporting of what Caroline Kisko has argued, there seems to be nothing new.
For nearly two decades, several Cavalier breeders on this side of the Atlantic have used the old "Shut-up-because-I'm-a-breeder-and-you're-not!" argument to try to stifle legitimate debate without actually responding substantively.
And, their other tiresome non-argument has been "one bad experience does not make someone an expert!", just as Bet has related.
Nevertheless, it seems that one dog-bitch mating does make the owner a "breeder" and thereby, an "expert", at least a self-styled expert. Just ask 'em.
13th November 2009, 09:36 PM
Good for Carol.
Pet owners who have had any experience of pedigree dogs are entitled to offer their opinion.
I think the expression is "armchair critic".
But these are the people who support the kennel Club.
They buy their dogs from Kennel Club Breeders and their armchairs from DFS so it's a win win for the Kennel Club.....
13th November 2009, 09:53 PM
I'm wondering the same.
Originally Posted by RodRussell
Nanette posted this on another thread a while back and I looked and looked for where I could get access to it and the response letters . . . . I really wanted to read those responses.
Originally Posted by HollyDolly
14th November 2009, 12:17 AM
14th November 2009, 01:21 AM
Thank you so much Nanette.
14th November 2009, 03:48 AM
This quote is from the "IMPORTANT: Bateson Enquiry on Dog Breeding: a Call for Evidence" thread. I finally found and listened to the Kisko interview on the Dog World website. Mme. Caroline Kisko really is a piece of work. Either or both ignorant and arrogant. I guaranty you that the US breed clubs, both connected to the AKC as parent clubs or independent ones, don't always act like they know what they are talking about.
Originally Posted by Margaret C
Like the ACKCSC, which is AKC's parent club for Cavaliers: It does not even acknowledge the existence of the MVD breeding protocol, much less endorse it. Is that ignorance? Of course not. Members of the ACKCSC's board of directors know about the MVD breeding protocol. They simply have made a conscious (read: arrogant) decision to not tell anyone about it. So, here is an example of a breed club that has no clue about what it is talking about (or, in this case, not talking about).
Arrogance like that of the ACKCSC cries out for independent, pet-owner driven sources of information about MVD and its breeding protocol. I can even conceive of a website which could spring into existence to bring attention to this information simply because the breed club refuses to do so. In fact, I did conceive of such a website, over five years ago, for that very reason.
And yet, still, five years later, ACKCSC keeps its fingers crossed that none of its breeders will find out about that breeding protocol, which was fashioned to eliminate early-onset MVD within two to three generations. What could possibly be wrong with that goal, ACKCSC?
15th November 2009, 12:11 AM
Interesting responses on Youtube from David Cavill. Near the end he responds to questions from Jemima Harrison about Cavaliers. The video on Youtube is at this link address.
Edited to amend my post as privately I have been corrected, sorry my mistake and many thanks for correcting me. David Cavill is NOT the Chairman of the UK Kennel Club. Ronnie Irving is the Chairman.
Here is a webpage with information about David Cavill see at this link address.
Last edited by EddyAnne; 15th November 2009 at 10:53 AM.
15th November 2009, 12:25 AM
Rod if you have some more time then I suggest you see and listen to the video and this which I posted elswhere.
Originally Posted by RodRussell
I remember during the Australian 19 minute video interview when Bateson was asked what particularly worried him he replied Syringomyelia, he then went on mentioning severe headaches where the dog was quietly suffering. Yes he talked about this which I think may be in his Report.
The video interview for ABC TV Australia is still available on the internet on the ABC website, see at the bottom of the page via this link address.
By the way, I also noted that Bateson did mention this which I think may also be in his Report.
"I think a lot could be done by good Codes of Practice which then could be used, and if an animal charity wants to bring a case against a dog breeder and the dog breeder has not followed the Codes of Practice then they could be successfully Prosecuted."
15th November 2009, 12:36 AM
What he had to say was very interesting. His viewpoint seems to boil down to: If "it doesn't show", the dog should be eligible for a championship and possibly even to be bred. For examples: A blind dog, if he can find his way around the show ring, should be able to compete. A Cavalier with MVD or SM, as long as the disorder "doesn't show", should be allowed to compete and be bred.
Originally Posted by EddyAnne
And we are supposed to defer to characters like him, because he is a breeder, and therefore an expert? I think the term "menace" is more appropriate.