Should A Pet Owner Scan

[Karlin]

Margaret, good post. Thanks for that perspective.

[waldor]

.....The scan revealed he has cm. Clare Rusbridge has put him on Cimetadine and a mild dose of Previcox. The reason for putting him on the Cimetadine is for preventative measures.

Would the Cimetadine prevent the CM from progressing to SM? This is something I have missed in all my reading, so I'm truly curious. Over here in the U.S., I don't know how well the vets are educated in all this, as so many are in the UK.

BTW, where does one go for the MRI scan here in the U.S.? A regular vet, Internal Medicine specialist, or a veterinary school? I may have Sophie scanned next year, as she scratches at her ears a lot, and all over her body.

[WoodHaven]

Nicki,

I personally will never accept that a dog has SM until the MRI scan shows me a Syrinx !

I spoke to GS last week and the question of bad ears and CM was mentioned.

CM will cause severe pain and Ears similarly can cause severe discomfort. (I do of course accept that you already know this.)

Consequently I say, dont think your dog has SM until it is confirmed and how can medicine be administered if the cause is not 100% confirmed ?

Yet another reason to have a scan.

Indeed, when we went to 'Stone Lion', the form specifically asked for the behaviour of the dog and asked for all symptoms to be listed.

The next 'bus' is scheduled for 18th MARCH 2010.

Mark Marshall.

There are dogs that are in neuro pain that don't have a syrinx.
I have two with scoliosis, that are sensitive to aggressive grooming. I decided not to pay 1600.USD to so an SM MRI and tell me that they have SM. IF they show any progression of symptoms, or ANY pain-- they will get the full MRI in preparation for surgery.
They are active, wide eyed- running, jumping-- neither show any pain symptoms.

[Soushiruiuma]

Waldor,

MRI machines are expensive, as far as I know the only places it's realistic to expect to find them is at a vet school.

[WoodHaven]

Here is a list of Board certified Neurologists by states:
http://www.cavalierhealth.org/neurologists.htm

[avejo]

This is, I think, another of the decisions that can only be made by the owner...........

The benefits that this information can give for the future of the breed through the EBV programme are immeasurable.

The information it can give to the breeder ( who should always be informed of the result, whether good or bad ) will be invaluable to their breeding programme.

It will benefit the dog if there are early signs of SM that have been missed, medication can change a quiet, unsociable, couch potato into a lively relaxed little dog.

I do not think that any cavalier owner who knows about SM can ever completely dismiss the worry from their mind.
That is a criticism that has been levelled at the film PDE and those of us who took part, but we did not invent SM, it was already there and spreading rapidly. Cavalier owners needed to know there was good reason to be concerned.

It may help some owners to know scan results and have vague worries confirmed or proved wrong. Others may not be able to cope with a positive diagnosis and their pleasure in their pet will be submerged completely in their dread of the eventual outcome.

Like the decision to have SM surgery, or the decision when to euthanise, I feel that this is a decision that the owner must feel able to make according to their own comfort zone.
They are not breeders, they do not carry the responsibility in the same way as all breeders do, but if they feel able to help in a partnership of breeders and owners, then what a wonderful gesture that will be.

I feel like this is the very debate I've been having. I spoke with a vet and a neurologist who told me I could go forward with an MRI "if I wanted" - but did not make the recommendation that I do so. This was based on my concerns about occasional scratching while on lead, a lot of sleeping during the day, and my own awareness about how prevalent SM is in the breed (I've read extensively on this site as well as on cavalierhealth). I have a full-pedigree registered dog that I adopted/rehomed who is 7 years old. I know any information would help the breeder (and the breed) and would put my mind to rest - and allow me to stop worrying and watching and start treating if needed. But due to her age, I worry that going under is not without risk. So my problem? Without a "you should get an MRI" from a vet and/or neurologist, I feel like I'm volunteering my dog for a procedure I don't know that she needs. I'm not a vet, and while I can read all I want about SM symptoms and watch youtube videos, I rely on those with degrees and experience to help me make the best decision. I love the breed, and I want to contribute to future generations, but I also love my dog, and the thought of losing her kills me. I feel both incredibly selfish and like I'm looking out for Lady's best interests - all at the same time. And I still don't know what to do.....

[Tania]

[QUOTE=waldor;346636]Would the Cimetadine prevent the CM from progressing to SM?

I am not qualified to answer this. I can only tell you what has happened to Dougall. We assumed Dougall was a quiet lazy dog. He showed discomfort when you touch his back (it shudders when you lightly touch it) and he lowers his head if you go to touch it. Clare Rusbridge mentioned the Cimetidene would help prevent the cm developing. The previcox seems to have relieved his back by about 70%. Dougall is more lively and bouncy and behaves more like a 2 year old should. I would also mention Molly who has sm and had a large pre-syrinx (the scan is on Clares website). This Syrinx was forming while the scan was being done! We scanned Molly 8 months later, the pre-syrinx has vanished. We were lucky to catch it at this stage which stopped it in its tracks.

[Brian M]

Hi

I thought this thread would attract varying comments and MC/CF and Karlins and all others have all opened lines of thought .I do have 5 generation pedigrees on all four girls and I know scanning them especially Daisy and Lily would help our breed ,but I feel if by putting them through this procedure may result in unwellcome news which would then cast a dark cloud over us it would be a step too far for me . So from my purely selfish view as a pet owner I am afraid I adopt the point of view no news is good news and I shall face any bad news it ever develops .But I thank all for their generous guidance on this personal and and difficult question.

[MadPip]

Brian,
thank you for opening up such an interesting discussion.

The decision to scan or not is one that I'm thinking a lot about, not least because Maddie will be 5 years old on Friday, and she has SM on both sides of her pedigree, (Margaret Cs Monty), and I think has the same sire as the Blenheim from PDE who won at the show.

However, she is showing no symptoms, and although she is a stoical little girl her behaviour, especially at agility, shows me when she's not 100% for any reason or in pain, and she is currently flying round the agility courses and then barking at me to have another go! So, I shall carry on thinking about scanning, but haven't yet made up my mind.

[Cathy T]

I spoke with a vet and a neurologist who told me I could go forward with an MRI "if I wanted"

I was in the exact same position. Shelby's symptoms are very mild, I doubt anyone except an expert would she what I was seeing. I was told I "could" MRI and also told that was the only way to confirm what we felt I was seeing. Had she been more symptomatic I think the decision would have been easier. I talked to lots of people....breeders, friends, vets, other Cavalier owners with and without SM affected dogs. I got so many varying opinions I knew it was a decision I personally would have to make. So I made the decision to MRI. I already pretty much knew what we would find but had no idea to what degree. Shelby has a mild herniation and a long syrinx. At least now I know for certain what is going on in her little body. She was 6 years old when I had her MRI'd a few months back. The anesthesia portion really wasn't a huge concern. The surgeon who did the MRI anesthesizes many dogs every single day. She knows Shelby inside and out and I knew she was in great hands.

I won't be MRI'ing Jake without a reason. He is completely symptom free and to MRI him at this point would not do anything for me. However.....if he had an important pedigree, someone else wanted to pay for the MRI (upwards of $1600) and the scans would be of benefit....sure, I would do it.