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Thread: Chronic Diarrhea

  1. #1
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    Default Chronic Diarrhea

    Misha has had bouts of clostridium for about 1 year with it recurring every 2 weeks to 3 months. Diarrhea is unpleasant, but not the worst I've encountered. He's been treated with metronidazole and amoxicillin in the past.

    My mom recommended diatomaceous earth. I know it's not supposed to be effective against bacteria, but may help flush them out. I gave it to him as a "can't hurt, might help" sort of thing.

    We went to the vet who recommended a short course of amoxicillin, propectalin (antidiarrheal + probiotics) and panacur (dewormer) to cover all the bases. After the short course he is expected to start on long term tylan (tylosin) low dose antibiotic + fortiflora (probiotic). I brought everything home and intend to switch from fortiflora to florentero but wanted to have immediate access (fortiflora picked up from vets) for now and make the switch to florentero when I have more time to get it from Canada into the US.

    I have not started Misha on the short course yet. The diatomaceous earth seems to be making him incrementally better every day. He still has some loose foul-smelling stool, but has not been waking up early in the morning having to go out or having accidents in the house. Should I continue with the DE alone in hopes that he will not need antibiotics as long as he continues to make improvements? Obviously if he worsens, I would then start the short course. Or should I do as the vet suggested from the get-go? TIA!

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    BE SURE it is food grade DE. I've read that anything else can have awful toxins added to it, like pesticides and such. I don't know if it is meant to help diarrhea.

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    I'd talk to your vet about the approach you are taking. You need to be working with someone on this -- chronic diarrhea can be very taxing and contribute to other, worse health problems as it leaves the animal weakened. It can also be a sign of a more serious underlying condition that, if not helped by antibiotics, will be clearer to your vet. I advise always having medical advice if you are tryIng to treat using a method you are not 100% familiar with and know is safe. If your own vet isn't familiar with this approach, then look for a vet (maybe a holistic specialist) who is and work with them?
    Karlin
    Cavaliers: Jaspar Lily Tansy Libby Mindy
    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Seems like a contradiction to be using antibiotics and probiotics for the same issue. Do you have access to a good holistic vet? Are there any new stressors in your dogs environment that started when the diarrhea started. Diarrhea is a symptom...it is important to find the cause and not just treat the symptom.
    Marjorie

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  5. #5
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    Actually a lot of vets recommend using probiotics and antibiotics concurrently - though taken at separate times during the day. My own doctor has suggested this for me as well. The probiotics theoretically replace lost gut flora during the antibiotic treatment and help reestablish healthy colonies (instead of the clostridium) in the gut.

    We fostered a Samoyed about a year ago. At that time someone left horrid dog doo in our yard and didn't clean it up (live in an apartment complex). We did out best to get it, but it infected the sammy Jodie. Jodie was 15 and already in somewhat poor shape. Nothing cleared it up in a 2 month time period and she was euthanized due to this and many other quality of life factors. Misha contracted it shortly after Jodie and I contracted it shortly after Misha. Misha has had issues on and off all year, though antibiotics always clear it up temporarily (initially for longer stretches - months, but now only about a month). It took me a good three months and multiple probiotics to get rid of it (doctor suggested florastor as a side note 3 months into treatment and that made me human again).

    Diatomaceous earth worked great for the diarrhea, but stool was still quite mucousy so we switched to the antibiotic short course. I'm hoping the combo of tylan/fortiflora work well. Thanks for all the info.

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    I'm familure with probiotics and what they do, but antibiotics are what destroys the good flora in the gut and should be avoided if possible. Antibiotics are much too frequently administered without fully understanding the problem in my opinion. Our dogs have a tremendous ability to self heal if we can identify thetheir stressors and support their natural terraine.
    Marjorie

    "when a dog runs at you, whistle for him"
    Henry David Thoreau

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    Probiotics replace the 'good flora' (or good bacteria) that the antibiotics kill while killing the bacteria. Antibiotics are not choosy, like chemotherapy. They'll kill whatever is in the intestinal tract.

    I always take probiotics when on antibiotics, and I do the same when our dog is on Antibiotics. L0ike MishathePooh said a post or two earlier, probiotics must be taken a few hours apart from the antibiotics.. Otherwise, the antibiotics will immediately kill the good stuff you have just tried to replace, spend all its energy doing that, and not completely kill the bacteria.

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    We got rid of the clostridium and campy was present. He went on liquid neomycin 3x/day for 10 days. His stool has finally returned to normal color and he is doing great on the tylan/probiotic combo. He likes to scoot and also scavenge the floors, so I shampooed the carpets and scrubbed the floors by hand. His bottom was looking really red and irritated halfway through the neomycin, so the vet recommended using wipes on him after taking him out. He stopped the meds about a week ago and his bottom is fine now. I'm hoping the wiping will help prevent scooting bacteria from being ingested x_@ I know long term antibiotics aren't the best, but he is doing great now so will stick with this for the time being.

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    Glad you are seeing an improvement! This sounded like such a frustration, when you are trying to figure out what is going on.
    Karlin
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    In memory: Lucy Leo
    Cavalier SM Information site:www.smcavaliers.com

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    Just catching up with this thread after being away - I would definately use the Tylan for clostridium as it is very effective.

    Our vet put Geordie and India on Tylan when they had clostridium years ago. He said an overgrowth of clostridium actually causes toxins to grow in their intestines, and can get entirely out of hand, where normal antibiotics don't work. We had to give them 1/16th teaspoon in their food daily, and it was a big bottle of yellow powder for a herd of farm animals! We used it for 6 to 8 weeks and they completely recovered.

    Glad Misha is doing better!

    ETA: If his poo is yellowish and the consistency of pudding, it could also be related to pancreatic enzyme insufficiency, which the vet can test for and treat.
    Last edited by Cathy Moon; 16th February 2010 at 01:37 AM.
    Cathy Moon
    India(tri-F) Geordie(blen-M)Chocolate(b&t-F)Charlie(at the bridge)

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